Musing about the best laid plans of turners like you and me.

"Arch" wrote: (clip)discuss your reasons, whether or not you know (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Arch, see what quoting out of context can do?

I have known some very good turners who insist that a dimensioned scale drawing is a necessary first step for every turning. I just let the wood talk to me as I am cutting. I also do wrought iron work, and it is amazing how many times a partially finished item starts looking better than the design I had in mind when I started. Besides, I do this stuff for relaxation, and detailed planning doesn't relax me.

Arch ... there AIN'T no one like you! (LOL!)

I'll start with a rough mental picture. Sometimes it gets edited by a run of beautiful grain, a void or an embedded piece of metal. Sometimes an unseen crack turns a nice-sized bowl blank into a dozen pen blanks, of which two or three have enough grain to mess with. Sometimes an over-zealous turner makes a platter from a completed bowl. (Two minutes ago it had already reached its minimum thickness. ;-)

No drawings. Certainly nothing more detailed than a paper napkin sketch unless I am looking to duplicate (nearly) something that wants to be a "set" ... such as single candlestick that turned out nice will usually challenge me to make another.

Sometimes I will start out with a photo of someone else's work ... but that is mostly done as a training exercise. At one time or another, I've probably been 'inspired' by about 1/2 the galleries posted in signature lines to try to make something 'like' a piece in a photo.

I don't do dimensional take offs. I seldom have the sort of wood available that was originally used. I just look at a photo for a sense of proportions or a technical challenge (2 or 3+ piece hollow forms, for example.)

The one 2 piece hollow form I made launched during buffing. So I can't show you. But it WAS really nice ... the flagship of my work so far.

Bill

I attempt to use all the wood available when turning a bowl,and I don't know for sure when I start to turn how much that's going to be. Once I think I have everything available, I attempt to, slightly, adjust the dimensions to fashion a pleasing form. Some forms are more 'pleasing' than others.

Definitely, but only when I'm doing my segmented pieces. I start with an exact idea of what I want the piece to look like. I draw the cross section to exact scale and shade it in. If it still looks good I'll make one or more "prototypes" out of scraps to make sure it's what I want and often to try subtle variations in shape. Sometimes working on the "prototypes" helps in defining problems in the construction process that need to be addressd. I use wood ranging in price from expensive to grossly exorbitant for these pieces and I can't afford to waste even a small amount. I also feel I owe it to the tree to take some care.

Yes, as a first step on a new idea.

Yes, when I'm working on roughing out blocks that came straight from a tree. I cut the log up to get the best grain rather than the most blanks. I will look at each blank and try to envision all the options, at least the ones that my limited imagination can see. Then I'll pick the one that I think best shows the grain and that appeals to me. I also consider if I have a reasonable chance of turning that shape to completion. If there is nothing special about the grain I might try something that I have a fair chance of failing at just for the practice.

For me, there are 3 basic ways, in increasing difficulty:

1. I make a lot of bowls with the same basic form and allow a certain influence by the wood itself.
2. I make sketches with idea or concept as a starting point, search for the best fitting wood and if its a "dry wood" project, I make an exact drawing, often using just plain maple. With wet woods, there is no use in exact drawings, because because it will chance its shape, such as holly.
3. With the wood in charge, I just follow its directions, using the most whimsical wood I can find such as crotches and burls, which are seldom without holes, bark inclusions, nails, stones or rotten spots. As always, don't mind my english.

Dutchturner Chris

It depends entirely on what I'm making.

If I'm making a large bowl from a crotch of a tree, I rarely draw anything (except some circles with compasses to find the right center) until I've turned it round, remove chain saw marks and have a look at the grain and the general shape of what's left, then I take it off, set it down on a table and try to make an accurate sketch and decide what curvature and foot will look best. Afternoon light and a beer help a lot at this point. I find this sketching process to be the crucial difference between a truly elegant and beautiful piece and a somewhat klunky looking present for someone that will appreciate it.

If it has some great surface features I want to include in a natural edge, I will often spend a lot of time working out where the center and bottom plane should be, and after doing a bunch of geometric constructions directly on the log, I'll mount it at what I think is the correct center with a few screws, then turning it by hand, see if the features on the natural edg lie where I want. if not, I make careful measurements and re-set the face plate, sometimes with wedges if the angle of the base plane is off. This can go on a couple times if it's really hard.

For example this one:

was a monster piece of olive that has a completely continuous natural edge, even continuous with the hole in the surface, and that took a couple mountings to get it right (I first glued a large flat piece of ash onto the bottom so I could turn the off center bowls inside). It was hard because of the irregular shape and you can see where there was an unavoidable chain saw cut which I planed flat (luckily the natural edge was still continuous around the outside, though it narrows down to about 1/16" wide at the lower right edge). Some others, such as these Frankenstein bowls I will first choose the center for a natural edge, turn it round, then spend a lot of time sketching before I add pieces of wood to span gaps. Adding the dovetail joints, I don't usually draw, it's more of a process of examining the grain and seeing what will be sound enough to take the dovetail and just will give a pleasing look. These are not drawn quite as much when I add the extra wood when I join two burls together. Instead I just use my hands to feel in empty space where the already turned surface will be in the pieces of wood will end up, holding them together by hand and turning the lathe by hand to see where the second burl will get cut. The multi axis bowls and vases I will draw in much greater detail before I turn, even down to which centers will be turned in what order and which cuts will be done now or later, after mounting on other centers and then coming back again to the original center. There is sometimes a lot of jig building that goes on for them and wedges and more geometric constructions in 3D with the wood propped up on the bench, using a large square (or two) to mark where different centers ought to be to get the features I want. If it's a matched set of things, I have a detailed drawing with some specific dimensions that have to match.

I laughed when I read this one, Arch. Being a tad on the squeaky side, I usually try to conserve all the wood on the piece that I can. If it is big enough to be a plate, then you better believe it's gonna be a plate, not a saucer.

I do make different things that require that I plan what I am doing. For those things I look for specific pieces of wood, or for the pieces of wood I have set back with those projects in mind.

I don't always have much time to turn, so when I do it can be a while between sessions. So if I find I am having problems with a certain tool (say the bowl gouge) in normal use, or maybe it just isn't as comfortable as it should be, I will turn as many small bowls as it takes to get my hand back.

Otherwise when I am turning just for the fun of turning, I decide on the fly what I would like to do. It gives me a chance to work with different tools, and to explore different techniques, not to mention shapes and designs. Some of those pieces aren't even finished. They hold "stuff" in the shop like my glues and finishes. Some meet an untimely end in the pit if I don't like them at all.

I am thinking of turning an art deco piece that would require some inside out turning, and that one I will have to plan for. But for the small bowl and the 10" vase I made this weekend, they just kinda came out of the log on their own.

Robert

I do both. But I only plan segemented turnings, or when I am repairing something for someone and need to make a duplicate or an existing part.

When it's just wood on the lathe, and I'm just doing it for fun, I "sketch", as you so aptly put it.

My background is split about 50/50 between machinist and carpenter- depending on which one I'm doing to pay the bills (machinist now, and as much as I like building things, I think that's how it's going to stay), I generally do the other in my spare time for extra money and to make sure I don't forget everything I've worked to learn over the years. But my apprenticeship was as a machinist (knife sharpener), and I'm probably more inclined to view things through that lens.

Cost? I don't recall ever turning anything but free wood, but maybe that's just me. As far as size goes, I usually try to get the biggest piece I can out of the wood on the machine, but sometimes I whittle a big hunk of wood down to almost nothing hunting after that bit of grain that is "just right".

Late to this one.

I tend to do "series" stuff. I'll get into finials for a while and turn a bunch. I'll run variations of one that is interesting, often refining a combination of profiles 'til there's no change I can come up with that will improve things. Then I started hollowing / piercing some parts of the finials using small dental burs.

Currently I'm into "capsule" shaped lidded boxes - with finials. Found the proportions that looked right by the fourth or fifth one. Then started playing with adding internal lids and finials. When I had that down I started adding a contrasting wood "base". Think I'll start sculpting areas next, or maybe experiement with texturing.

Because relatively small turnings don't require much wood and can be done quicker than bowls and larger hollow forms I can evolve from a basic idea and in subsequent pieces, refine it to the "n"th degree or until it gets boring.

When I've taken an idea to the point where I really like it THEN I may do some scaled drawings to see if there are any underlying proportions to be discovered. If there are, I may try applying those proportions to something else. The drawings and notes go in a design folder for future reference / inspiration.

Keeping digital images of what I've done is handy too. With PhotoShop I can tweek the proportions, try different combinations of parts, change the color of the wood etc. If I find an interesting look I'll try it in wood.

I sometimes take an image of a piece I've found and bring it into a drawing program. One one "layer" I'll put a red line with the slope being tall version of "the golden ratio" and a green line with the slope being the wide version of the golden ratio. I can then slide either line over the image of the piece and see if the line intersects any control points in the piece. Can do the same sort of things with lines based on Thirds or Fifths. Searching for patterns/ proportions can be useful. In furniture, "graduated" drawer heights can take a Ho-Hum design up a notch.

On some pieces it can be the base / foot that makes or breaks a piece. It can be something subtle which lifts the piece off whatever it's sitting on - just enough to make the piece appear to float - just a little. Or it could be a barely noticeable bead or slight upswept lip which makes the piece more interesting but not consciously noticable.

Ideas are everywhere. The nice thing about turning is that you can explore many avenues and approaches

- for very little cost in time or materials.

charlie b