Re: Pricing

Hello Bernard,

In one of Richard Raffan's books he stated that on a regular bowl you could multiply the diameter times the height times some personal price factor plus the cost to replace the wood, even if you got the wood for free. When I was selling to the local craft markets, which wouldn't pay very much for any piece that you produced. I was using a price factor of about $2.00. So that a 6 inch diameter by 2 inch high bowl made from an inexpensive wood say a $10.00 blank would have been prices at $34.00 and a 12" diameter by 4" deep salad bowl made from a $25.00 blank would have been prices at about $125.00. This seemed like fairly reasonable pricing to me. I increased the price factor for natural edge bowls to $3.00 or $4.00 depending upon how difficult they were to turn and finish. Someone like David Ellsworth would use a much higher price factor based on what their name would allow. I hope this helps you a bit.

Fred Holder

is a chart that might bea helpful guide. Keep in mind these are retail prices. If your bowls areall burl wood and not just spotted with burl patterns, I would say you coulddouble the price. Sales are generally much more brisk for bowls under $75.Keep in mind these are retail prices.

Thanks, Fred & Derek. I've been wondering the same thing. I will probably sell some of mine at Christmas time at a local craft fair. I wasn't planning on it but I'm getting too many of the darn things piling up around the house. Can't find anybody to give more of them to! Earl

Hi, Earl,

I do one festival a year. About 5 years ago, I was not turning much and my spouse said, "if you do one show a year, you'll have to turn out a number of pieces, and then get rid of them so you'll have room for more." Its been good advice. I do a 2-day show, Saturday and Sunday - just got back from this year's. A couple of points to consider:

- If possible, choose a show that's more art than craft. If the booth next door is selling plywood cutouts of the grandma bending over in the garden, or little bandsawn (bandsawed?) toys that sell for $6.00, your bowls at $75 aren't going to look like a deal. Go to the show the year before, and look at what people are carrying. If most folks aren't carrying high-end items, it may not be te show for you.

- Timing is important. I tried one show in a good location with good advertising in early October, and no one bought much. Most folks were walking around looking. The same propmoter had a similar show in the same place in early November, and the Christmas gifts were flying out the door. If your market is Christmas items, try for the last week in October or the first week in November (IMHO).

- Be patient. I've had customers buy a big piece, then tell me they looked at my stuff for a couple years, but never bought. Your first shows may not be great selleres, but the contacts may be very important.

- This year's sales were dampened by a big rain, but in a good year, I need about 50 pieces to keep up with sales. I took about 35 last year, and was almost sold out by noon on Sunday. And I will tell you that my spouse and my friends tell me I'm a much better turner for having cranked out the 200+ that I've taken to shows.

Good luck!

Ron Williams Minn-Dak Woodturners Moorhead, MN

Thanks. That's good advice and worth thinking about. The Christmas show I was thinking of is very much of the craft, inexpensive, Christmasy type of stuff. So it may not be the best place.

Problem is I don't think my stuff is very good, yet. I think I am a pretty good in design and cenception but my woodturning skills are far from perfected. But maybe by Christmas... My wife thinks I'm too picky, that the small tears in end grain, not so well finsihed bottoms, etc., will not be noticed. But I notice them.

I will get a small chance to test the waters this week. There is a downtown "art walk" sponsered by our few art galleries, cafes, etc and I was invited to put some of my pieces in it. It's just one evening but at least I'll see if there is any interest.

Your wife may be right. this past weekend we were on vacation and stopped at a regional Folk Art center where there is a lot of "Art" and a little folk. Some of the bowl work was amazing, as well as the price BUT after looking at the sanding swirls and end grain tear out on these items I began to rethink my quality control. I think, museum pieces are perfect, Art for the mantel is "hand made", my wife says that if it is mirror smooth then it looks machine made or template made. I'm not saying to skip the sanding or to not try for that silky smooth surface but the average customer may never realize it is not perfert to you.

the turner I took lessons from keeps track of the hours used on a bowl and charge $20 an hour, including finisheing time. Since I can't turn that fast I need to get about $5 an hour and that makes me happy for the moment. As yor skill increase, so should your rate.

I am beginning, slowly to agree with my wife a little bit. Not have sold anything other than cabinetry I am hesitant to sell my turnings. Maybe this year I will sell a few earings and a bowl or 2. Locally there are no Art shows, just lots of bent over granny's and unfinished pine "furniture". :-)

BRuce

I would price differently. The market in your area will bear a price regardless if the bowl took 1 hour or 10 hours. You need to determine the market price. I do this by seeing what other turners in my area charge for similar pieces. Once I figure out what a market price should be, I do the calculations that everyone here is suggesting. For me, economical turning is around $30 per hour plus materials. If the piece takes more time than I can charge for a $30/hr return, I don't do it unless I am doing it for a gift or for me.

For example, I love Dick Sing ornaments, but I can't sell them for the prices he can charge. That type of ornament only goes for around $30 or a bit more around here. It takes me longer than an hour to turn them. By the time I add in a nice piece of burl wood, I can't do it and pay myself $30/hr, therefore, I don't turn them. I have designed my own ornament that I can do in about 20-30 minutes and charge $20-$25 each. I do these instead.

Joe Fleming San Diego

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 09:18:49 -0600, "Bernie Bober" wrote:

here is a link to a thread last fall, started by Arch called "Musings about worth of turnings"....I had some things to say there, so I will not re-type it all, but several folks had valuable things to say in it.

(that is a shortened version of then posted a follow up, which I paste in here......"I have a few more thoughts on value, following one of the best shows Ihave ever had......thus, I am appending them to this earlier post sothey can all be read as one unit for those who may have missed thefirst.

We all know there are several things which can bring 'value' to a turning.. usefulness: lidded boxes, candy dishes,goblets, salad bowls...etc..

aesthetics: shape, color, grain, finish, size (large OR small)..etc.. A subset of this is 'features' like worm holes , bark, voids, limbs, etc. Somewhere in the list is things that are 'added', like dying, painting, inlay, bleaching..etc.

name recognition: work by a 'known' artist, or from a famous wood or tree (The Wye Oak in Maryland was recently cut up for projects). Pink Ivory 'could' be considered here, as I HAVE sold some simply because of the appeal of owning something considered to be rare.

personal interest: a tree they know, a wood from their home or friends home or town...etc.

now, let me add also...the ARTISTS own input and interest. That is, the customers realization that the maker cared and thought and struggled to create the item..... These last 3 categories I sort of summarize with the idea that people like to buy a *story*, not just a turning. What I have found recently is that the more I talk about wood and it's folklore and history and properties, the more I sell it. (If, of course, it is a decent item fairly priced). .......Sure...you have to learn when to be quiet and let the folks just look, but sitting in a corner reading a book and having no 'information' beyond a common name of the wood is courting disaster, unless you have really amazing pieces and/or prices. (Yes, pieces sell in galleries without the artist there to explain it all, but usually only the best pieces...and I suspect that IF one was able to be there to add the 'story' dimension, sales would be even better) It is possible to provide some printed information with wooden items (beyond noting the wood type), but I am SURE that several of my sales this past weekend were concluded because I gave the potential customer a 'feel' for the wood over & above the standard aesthetics and usefulness values. (The last sale of the day was a pretty , but simple bowl of Chechem--'Metopium browneii', also known as "Black Poisonwood", from the Yucatan Peninsula of Mexico...Explaining why this wood was only fairly recently available because of the nasty sap in the bark made it much more interesting than just a bowl of pretty wood.) I try to learn ALL the genus/species names of the wood and know where it comes from and what its characteristics are, and provide them IF the customer seems to care..(not all do! *wry grin*)

I hope this long-winded analysis doesn't sound like I'm preaching, or that I think you all don't already realize much of this, whether you have written it out or not!...I just wanted to put these thoughts in one place where they might stimulate more musings like Arch's and maybe serve to focus more ideas on one of the most sticky issues in crafts....value.

Thank you for your information.

Bernie