Time for a Glaser

Hi Derek, as requested, here's some muddled musings.

I think early on high speed steel (M2 or thereabouts) supplanted high carbon for gouges mainly due to its freedom from being blued. Sharpening and grinding were mostly done freehand on gray stones then and loss of temper was a problem. IIRC, milled flutes on round bar replaced forged flutes from flat stock about the same time and deep flutes in HSS became the way to go.

The Superflute gouge made by Taylor was the bellwether, but soon a variety of flute shapes and depths became available. We all began to grind the cutting edge back and leading turners lent their names according to how many mm. they swept the long edges back.

If M2 was good then more expensive alloys should be great and everybody thought so. It now appears that with the cost and questionable tradeoffs of these superior steels coupled with the ease of frequent sharpening, we may be going back to M2 as the consensus workhorse. I've often wondered if round stock, milled flutes, swept back edges and good sharpening jigs had existed during high carbon steel's heyday would HSS been such an advance. Carbon steel tools varied then as much as HSS does now. Some were very good, many weren't.

Regardless of the steel, except by faith alone we really don't know if a gouge remains as sharp as it can be until after it's resharpened or honed. If this is true then we ought to resharpen 'long wearing' edges as frequently as M2. Since frequent sharpening or honing has been made quick, easy and effective for everyone, draw your own conclusions re your need for expensive super steels. For me M2 is best overall and isn't a compromise.

Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter

That was a very good answer Arch - Thank you from one pondering the benefits of the more expensive metals.

I wonder if there's any market for excellent quality hi-carbon steel tools? I know I can make some of my own - and have- but I'd like to find a 3/4" very shallow gouge in carbon.

============================

Arch, For "store bought" tools you're probably right. For home made tools I prefer M42 over the M2. Grinding, shaping, etc., are comparable to the M2, but there is a better sharpness "life" with the M42. In sizes up to 1/2 inch, there's not enough of a price difference to be a problem. I've ordered from Cenco Grinding Corp. in Allentown, PA.

and have had good results. Typical Rockwell hardness for M2 is 62-65 RC, M42 is 66-69 RC. I can make several Oland bits from a 4 inch piece of 1/4" jobber size stock, or 5 inch piece of 3/8 in. Main difference chemically is that the M42 has Cobalt and Molydenum and M2 relies on Tungsten for hardness. There's about a

40% wear increase, but there's about that much price difference, so maybe it's just a matter of personal taste. I haven't tried any of the super particle compounds yet, so I can't comment on them. Of course I COULD comment on them, but it would all be hot air (:-))

Ken Moon Webberville, TX

I'm sure the purchase of the very best would give you satisfaction, though it might not improve your cuts directly, especially if you're cutting wood which dulls a PM tool that rapidly. I have some PM tools - Hamlet - which work nicely, though I really don't keep track of how long the edge lasts, a fool's errand anyway, given they're used for different tasks than the other gouges. It's my impression that their edge gives a cut inferior to my carbon steel tools, which are now reserved for final passes only, as they're irreplaceable.

These are impressions, and they are personal, and possibly flawed. A gouge used for hogging wood doesn't get the respect one used for smoothing the surface gets. It's a bit like the painters' schools where the master touches up the work of the grunts, imparting all the magic to the canvas.

More tools is better than fewer tools, in my philosophy. Get a big hogging gouge or two to take the load off that PM, and you'll learn to love him more. These are the best overall tools for me

,as they have a long edge which can be used at virtually the same attackangle. They can hog wood , when supported, as rapidly as my 1" bowl gouge,and can make a final pass _almost_ as easily as the carbon. Some say aswell, but I'm not willing to concede that yet.Oh yes, horsepower and such aren't that important. You need enough angularvelocity to peel a shaving, which isn't much when you present the edgeproperly. Any more, as I see it, encourages you to use bad angles and dullgouges. Or worse, you might speed up the lathe, which heats the tools, andsquares the force available to rip the wood every time you double.

Owen, With those powdered and rouged HSS hussies all the rage, I think a dowdy 3/4 in. shallow carbon steel gouge should be easy to pick up. Old Sears, etc.

For experimental fun If you have a spare and haven't already tried this, grind the bevel on the flute side and place the gouge flute side down flat on the rest and gently pull it for final smoothing. The tangential curves, tool to blank, are just right for easy catch free shear-cutting.

Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter

Hi Ken, Florida hot air is more like a gentle zepher than Texas', so I'll blow some your way. :) I agree 100% about cobalt carbides for inserted bit tools. The bits inserted at an angle are a little hard to sharpen and the price differential doesn't much matter. (Did I say that? I'm really out of character)

Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter

As near as I can tell, the best finish cuts come from a freshly sharpened gouge. I would give a slight preference to the HSS, but it isn't a critical difference. I have a variety of gouges in HSS and other powder metal gouges. The fancy "keeps it's edge 4 times longer" gouges don't seem to keep the fresh off the grinder edge any longer than the HSS gouges. They do keep a workable edge longer which is good for removing a lot of material. Then when you are ready for the finish cut, use a freshly sharpened gouge. I do like the feel of the Glaser gouges, and the shock absorbing abilities of the handle. My favorite handle is one that I made. It takes a bit of experimenting to find out what works best for you, but fit and feel of the handle can be as important as the steel. robo hippy

George wrote:

lowest of

variable speed

sharpening 4+

,> as they have a long edge which can be used at virtually the same attack> angle. They can hog wood , when supported, as rapidly as my 1" bowl gouge,> and can make a final pass _almost_ as easily as the carbon. Some say as> well, but I'm not willing to concede that yet.>

: I wonder if there's any market for excellent quality hi-carbon steel : tools? I know I can make some of my own - and have- but I'd like to find : a 3/4" very shallow gouge in carbon.

You could try:

I'm pleased with the carbon steel tools I got from them.

-- Andy Barss

Thank you. They're on my list, for sure. Amazing what twenty years of sharpening can take away.