Jo, you're labeling any unsolicited mail you receive or that which appears in this ng outside its defined boundaries as "spam" and that's not what it is. Because it is the subject of legislation it has precise definitions, but even those are interpreted differently by spammers and those of us who abhor it.
Spam is broadly defined as unsolicited bulk mail which usually goes to mailing lists, without regard to that person's interests. Look it up and pick your own definition, but you won't be able to define the person in question who posts sewing stuff to a couple of sewing ng's as a spammer.
I recognize spam alright, and use a spam-filter on my emails.
Since Sally missed junior high school biology I'll clue you in. I'm a DUDETTE, not a dude as they say in the public housing projects around here.
Your panties will probably stay in a wad because _every_ time a spammer shows up here and or anywhere else I post, I WILL report the lowlifes to their ISP.
I was not able to locate the charter for this newsgroup (I think it's really, really old in cyber-years) but I found this, which I hope may shed more light than heat on the topic:
I don't think any kind of personal insults or flaming are warrented for anything. It is just not a mature reaction. A short, polite, low-key [and I do mean *very* short, *very* polite (read sweet), and **very** low-key] response is appropriate. And at that it should not be done publicly. Would you like to be dressed down in public. No, of course not. So, don't do it to others.
Let's get back to why we are on this newsgroup, AK in PA
The charter for this NG is covered under the textiles charter.
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archives Usenet posts and also allows people to post to Usenetusing Google, so a lot of people aren't even aware that what they'reposting to is Usenet. Still, that's no excuse as Goodle provides thefollowing:
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-Irene
-------------- You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.=20
America is about capitalism. America is capitalism. Advertising is capitilism conversing with you. This is a conversation group. You are being impolite and probably don't support the president or the war. Guantanomo is waiting for you.
I like to assume that we're all rather grown-up and we'd check the rules before we decide to play the game. . .
I enjoy reading what y'all (can I say that, having lived in South Carolina for 17 years?) have to say; like you, I really don't want to see this NG become something akin to "give yourself those extra inches!"
This is also an opportunity to thank a bunch of you (Mistress of the Chocolate Wardrobe Buttons, in particular) for your advice to those of us with two left hands.
Alt.sewing dates back to early 1990 when nearly all of the people involved were university people on university computer systems. They were the originators and had (unbelievably) extensive discussions about these early NGs and their purpose. This was right before CERN announced the World Wide Web & HTML and while everything on the internet was still text-based.
My hypothesis is that the reason the original charter can't be found is because not long after alt.sewing was created, Anne Louise Gockel out of Cornell announced the creation of the rec.crafts group of NGs for all the textile arts. This was supposed to *replace* alt.sewing. However, people were already used to alt.sewing and did not wish to switch over for various reasons. Read a little about it here if you are interested (I hope this url works):
Just a smidgeon of history... but what I really want to say is that the "founders" likely never anticipated spam as we now know it, though they did create a lot of groups so that people would be able to attend to their special interests without having to wade through a lot of irrelevant material. The charter for alt.sewing was likely similar to the 1991 charter written for rec.crafts.textiles* (see below).
I think the reason that people get so torqued about the posting of ads to Usenet is because the medium was intended to be a place for free, intelligent (well normally) discussion with *separate* ad/marketing groups devised specifically for advertising products. Rec.crafts has such a NG at rec.crafts.textiles.marketplace and, as some of us have done in the past, it is to that group that we should be referring first-time offenders.
Others have their own opinions and methods and I respect that. Personally, I don't see any reason to do much more than that myself. True spammers and trolls are encouraged by angry responses; it only reinforces the behavior. But newbies are often put off by rancor they may not understand or have not learned to filter out. Those who are merely ignorant can just be ignored or briefly redirected to RCTM. It takes only minor filtering of even the most basic Usenet client to keep true spam from even appearing on the article list. Since this is an unmoderated group and since the original charter likely doesn't even address this kind of thing, each individual must decide for themselves what is the best way to deal with what they perceive to be off-topic post or spam. I am merely stating what works for me personally.
From: Anne Louise Gockel - view profile Date: Tues, Jul 23 1991 6:48 am Email: snipped-for-privacy@cs.cornell.edu (Anne Louise Gockel) Groups: rec.crafts.textiles Not yet rated Rating:
This newsgroup is for discussing all fiber and textile related interests that are not covered by another rec.crafts group. This includes, but is not limited to, sewing, weaving, spinning, knitting, crochet, quilting, embroidery, cross stitch, tatting, lacemaking and dyeing. Discussions may cover techniques, supplies and equipment, drafting of patterns, artistic approaches, exhibitions or shows, books or other references. Textiles includes both textiles to be worn or used in a home and textiles created for display.
rec.crafts.textiles is an unmoderated group.
Within the next week or so I will be trying to re-post the alt.sewing Frequently Asked Questions postings to both rec.crafts.textiles and alt.sewing. If you have any FAQ input, please let me know!
-Anne Louise Gockel Cornell Computer Science ____________________________________________________________________
There are some advertisers who are individuals that have a small enterprise or web site that has some product or service to do with sewing. There are others who simply dump an identical post on as many newsgroups as they can access at one time, without regard to the topic.
Personally, I don't mind a one-off post from an individual, but I understand many do object. What really bothers me much more than the advertising is the multiple responses to the ad, taking the poster to task over it. My theory (under development and not a certainty) is that spammers post and run and never read those responses. Only regular or occasional readers ever see them. It's easier for me to ignore one post than it is to ignore an entire thread about that post. They are much like the "me, too" posts, which don't add much to a discussion, either.
That's my take on the situation, and it's worth every cent you paid for it. ;-)
"Official" USEnet group charters can be found at: ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/control/alt/
User created FAQ's are completely meaningless and equally unenforcable, as they have no valid USEnet standing..
The charter for this newsgroup is not covered under ANY other group's charter. That is simply untrue, and is not how USEnet works. Each chartered newsgroup has it's own charter (orUSEnet "Control message").
If that is allegedly the charter, then why didn't you quote it here? I DLd that doc with Interarchy (my ftp client) and see only a header (no charter) but it could be a software translation problem. Did anyone else get any more than this? If so, please quote it: __________________________________________________________ From snipped-for-privacy@gandalf.UMCS.Maine.EDU Sun Apr 26 12:29:49 1992 Path: rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!decwrl!bu.edu!dartvax!mars.caps.maine.edu!gand alf!steve From: snipped-for-privacy@gandalf.UMCS.Maine.EDU (Steve E. Goldsmith) Newsgroups: alt.sewing.ctl Subject: newgroup alt.sewing Message-ID: Date: 25 Apr 92 23:17:43 GMT Control: newgroup alt.sewing Distribution: umcs Organization: University of Maine Department of Computer Science Lines: 0 Approved: snipped-for-privacy@gandalf.UMCS.Maine.EDU _______________________________________
Note that alt.sewing was enabled long before 1992.
I guess this happens all the time doesn't it? "One set of rules for the self ordained elite." Maybe they should look at those Usenet rules or guidelines again,
"J Cook" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com:
well, one of the rules is no top posting. guess pot, kettle, black might fit here? BTW, spam harvesters can read your email address quite clearly. you might want to spam-trap both parts that show your addy, not just the reply to. lee
Top-posting versus bottom-posting varies by group. Personally, I think it's about as pointless as arguing over which way to install the toilet paper on the dispensing roll.
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