We're going to eat lunch before the show and hopefully be there when the show opens. I'll definitely keep an eye out for you and your partner. I'll be wearing two shades of blue. I have short dark brown hair and I wear rimless glasses. I tend to kinda' disappear in a crowd because I'm rather short at
4'10", but hopefully we'll run into each other. :)
Happy shopping!!
Anna W. in Tx
p.s. ~~~ Waving to Starlia...I don't mean to be talking about you like you're not here. :) Sorry you can't make it this weekend.
So do I. However, we need to remember that it's our culture which makes
15-year-olds into "children". As recently as 100 years ago, it was not at all unusual for someone that age to be a fully-functioning member of society, and there were a lot of women getting married and having babies in their mid to late teens.
On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:57:44 -0400, Lee S. Billings wrote (in message ):
Well but... at fifteen, I was a fully functioning member of society in most ways. I worked two jobs, helped support the household, paid bills and was going to high school. (No boyfriends or sex, though. I didn't have the time)
Thinking back on those days, waking up in the middle of the night worrying if I had enough in my bank account to pay the electric bill or if I'd get enough hours at work to buy groceries, I think I'd have much rather been a child. Specifically, I'd like the childhood we've been able to give DD. (I try very hard to be the mother I wanted to have)
As far as the babies are concerned, I was 27, married, owned a home, had a good job and money in the bank when we had DD. I also had loads of family support. Even so, with DD's health problems, it was a total flipping nightmare. I cannot imagine coping with a child that screamed around the clock for seven months as a teenager. I can only imagine it would have ended tragically, probably at about the time DD had kept me up for eleven days straight. Thank God that DH's Mom came, took DD to her house and cared for her. DH and I slept for two solid days. (We found out DD had severe stomach problems shortly after that. As soon as she was treated, DD was a great baby)
Thinking back on that nightmare of a time, that's my biggest worry and concern about teen moms. How on Earth would they cope with a baby like DD, when they have nowhere near the resources I had? I found it nearly impossible, even with everything going for me.
I was 17.5 when I became pregnant with my first child, and although it was most certainly not planned, I rather think I did alright with things. I'm of the mind that although it's not a *good* thing to become a parent so young, there are those who can handle it well. One of my best friends became pregnant 4 months after I did, at age 15.5, and she is now married, has had another child, and is living on an Air Force base with her husband...so please, ladies, try to remember the ones who can make it thru this sort of thing and come out on top. :) We are far and few between, true, but we exist, nonetheless :)
In wild and domesticated animals often the mother doesn't know what to do with the first clutch/litter/whatever and they end up dying. Probably young mothers
100 years ago had a somewhat better social support system then some non-human species do...and a better social support system then a lot of young people do today, in the form of extended families who took care of the children together to some extent. Even so childbirth and the first few years of a child's life accepted as being pretty risky, I think...it certainly seems so from the matter-of-fact way tragedies were talked about in fiction and non-fiction from the last several hundred years.
In humans today, there are often serious complications with births of babies to young teenaged mothers. Their bodies often aren't quite large enough or totally developed enough to bare to term, and they are more suceptible to certain types of viruses (not to mention bad life choices such as drug abuse, which can cause problems to the unborn child and early labour. As Kathy N-V points out in her posting, young mothers are even less prepared to handle this then older ones.
Finally, although young women used to give birth earlier, as you point out, they also used to get married earlier. Often this would be to an older man, or, if it were to a young man, the couple would live with the parents for some time. Again, there would be support (financial and otherwise) for the new family.
I hope that my post (which you couldn't have read yet at the time you wrote yours) didn't offend you. I am sure you and your friend are good mothers, and that many people succeed at it!
I don't think, however, that having children at such a young age is best for most people. I guess I would summarize my opinion as "it does not maximize the best experience for mother and child", and most especially "it does not maximize the good of society as a whole". Since many young mothers do not seem to be ready for the responsibilities, they may have a difficult time raising their children in a way that helps them become responsible, productive citizens. Often "society" as a whole needs to step in in the form of foster care and adoption (and the foster care system is way overwhelmed and not a good place for children to be either), welfare, and providing services at school which were traditionally taken care of by families (again, something that doesn't seem to be working very well in a lot of cases, again to the detriment of the children).
A further thought -- In today's society, when education is more important then ever, it is good to give girls the most time to get their own education, and for them to be as prepared as possible to help their children get an education. I am sure some women are capable of succeeding and flourishing while raising their children at a young age, but it must be a lot of hard work!
RRGGG...again, hope this is not insulting. I am sure you may be a very very good mother. As with many other issues that border on ethical/moral debates, there is no "right" answer and there are plenty of opinions to go around until you meet someone actually in the situation, which invariably changes your mind, at least about that specific person!
Marisa....offend? moi? nnaawww..I thrive on varied opinions/outlooks...and debates :) I just had to toss mine out there, too. And btw...I'm a horrible mother...I make the kids eat regular, nutritious meals (they just wanna eat graham crackers all day) and wear clothing (naked time ALL the time for them) and read books (VIDEO games..YAY!) and clean them (but MOM...dirt is Like clothes, only easier to put on!!) hehehehehehe
Seriously tho...I do agree that as a mojority, young mommies are not in a position to brag about. Most just don't have the maturity to deal with being a parent, or the support systems, or the financial requirements, etc, etc....so when one comes along who's "got her sh*t together"...I applaud :)
I see far too many of the other side of the coin :(( Those are the ones I was referring to.. Kinda sad that they get themselves into that situation, drop out of school and before you know it they've had 3/4 kids to 3/4 different guys and no future and the only thing they know is the slums they live in and getting the DPB every fortnight..
I know there is another side too though... but IMHO they must be few and far between.. and that is what makes me sad.. that they usually wreck their lives and doom their kids to wrecked lives.. but I'm not saying that this is what happens in every case..
On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:22:10 -0400, Candace wrote (in message ):
I look at it in the same way as my abbreviated childhood. My father left, and I was thrust into the role of family provider at age 15. I did a reasonably good job of it: my Mom now speaks English and has a terrific career, everyone got fed, the bills got paid, and we've all become responsible adults. In one way, you could say, "well, it all turned out all right. No harm, No foul."
But is it something I would want for my daughter? Hell, no! The sleepless nights, the endless responsibility, the worry and terror that I'd drop one of the balls I was juggling and fail, and the hard, hard work of providing for a family while going to school is nothing I'd wish on a kid. No, I didn't have a baby to take care of - I had a grown woman and two teens, plus myself.
I'm not making moral judgements on the girls who are raising babies when they're still children themselves. Rather, I feel sad that they're missing out on an important part of their own development, just like I missed an important part of my own youth. There may be some rewards (I am quite sure that most mothers wouldn't wish their children away), but if the choice is there, I'd rather see the girls have an opportunity to become the women they want to be before deciding if having children is right for them.
I have to say I agree with what you are saying here. And I applaud what you have done - shows true character IMHO..
But as you say, teenagers having babies isn't the ideal I would choose for my DD (fingers crossed here) and I think about all the stolen teenage years.. I had a great childhood and teenage life down on the farm with my Mum and Dad and my 5 brothers and sisters.. all of whom are very close. I just wish they knew what they were missing out on.. all those opportunities..
My name is Kalera, I'll be 33 in a week or so, and at this stage in my life I'm a full-time glass beadmaker and mom, and part-time gardener. (Whenever I can slip into the yard for a moment.) I am somewhat of a pierced and tattooed former wild thing, partially reformed into a Respectable Voting Homeowner and Businessperson, Wife to Moxley and Mother of Juliet, Sam, and Ophelia, ages 6, 4, and nearly 1.
We live in a little old bungalow in inner NE Portland, the part that used to be "the Ghetto" but is now becoming gentrified. I was born in North Portland, and am not at all opposed to gentrification! I'll take a Starbucks in my neighborhood over a drive-by, any day.
I enjoy lots of things, but the things I actually have time for are torching, cooking, gardening, (I am currently taking a break from planting paw-paws, to nurse the baby and read this newsgroup. :) I am Cherokee, Apache, Navajo-Paiute, African, and Welsh descent, and I was raised Urban indian in a black neighborhood, with a firm connection to all my roots. I used to be more involved with the Urban indian community, both in Portland and online, but I am more of a homebody now.
I've been a bit of a beadaholic since I was a little kid, but never have done much with them... I just like to *have* them! I started lampworking about eleven years ago, and left my job to take it up full-time just this past October. I still buy beads though... especially beads from other lampworkers! I enjoy it here... it's kind of a refuge from my hectic life as Source-of-Food and Payer-of-Bills. (I have considered changing my name to Source-of-Food, since it is so descriptive of my current position in life. )
I am naughty because I forgot to mention my birthday: April 28, and my PETS: Penny, a Cardigan Corgi; Sol Rosenberg, a handsome tuxedo kitty, Wayne, a box turtle, Stretch and Booch, parakeets, and Betsy and Sara, my daughter's pet rats.
"Doctor, I'm in terrible pain. Is there anything you can give me?"
"Here, what you need is this new antidepressant!"
Um, NO.
My best friend has trouble with pain from her pacemaker wires poking her chest cavity lining (yay) and her doctor tried to give her an antidepressant. She looked at her... and said "You must not have heard me... I am perfectly HAPPY, but in PAIN. Is there anything you can do about the PAIN?"
I've had a similar experience, oh so many times. What I love is when I said "I don't need antidepressants, because I am not at all depressed" and the doctor said "Why don't you just try them" ???!
LOL, my five turned six a few months ago, and I momentarily thought "NO WAY am I old enough to have a six-year-old!" but then I remember that oh yeah, it's 2004 and yes I sure am.
I was actually tripping like crazy this morning about how I own a house and have a husband and three kids and... get THIS... I just bought all new cookware! WHO DOES THAT???
Moms, that's who.
My cookware was all fifteen years old, and though it was good stuff, made in Belgium and all that, which my mom gave me when I moved out on my own (an awesome gift, and one I am definitely giving to my kids when the time comes) but the handles were getting loose and it was just TIME.
OK, now I'd better get back out in the yard and finish planting my paw-paw trees.
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