more pics and descriptions added

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Kathy N-V :

]Even the kids, who adore more most of the time, know enough to stay ]away from me when I get to that point. (BTW, I'm not one of those loud angry ]people, I'm one of those silent angry people)

**giggle** tell 'em they're lucky. i slam doors, hit walls, and yell. a LOT. i haven't broken any windows yet . . . but i've sure wanted to!

]I got the feeling that the original poster was getting defensive because she ]really didn't want to hear it.

definitely.

]As soon as I started working with the nicer materials, I realized ]exactly what the fuss was all about.

seconded!

]I even made something with ]size 15 beads once - and once was enough for me. :-)

seconded!

]When I started beading, I got a subscription to Bead and Button. I've saved ]every issue I bought

seconded!

]I sometimes refer back to those issues, and amazingly enough, most of the ]projects no longer look impossible, although I still think some are insane.

absolutely! ]The more you ]know, the more you realize you _don't_ know.

AMEN. as i keep being reminded!

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

's not what you take, when you leave this world behind you;it's what you leave behind you when you go. -- Randy Travis

I'm willing to drop the issue. Perceptions of what was intended obviously differer from person to person, and I don't want to beat it to death.

Deirdre

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:34:09 -0400, Christina Peterson wrote (in message ):

I consider myself a hobbyist in that I don't sell anything. Like Tina, I do this for love, not money. Frankly, I am quite sure that I could never get enough money for my pieces to compensate for my time, so if I didn't love what I was doing, I wouldn't bother.

There's nothing wrong with hobbyists, or even flea market jewlery sellers. But I can't imagine getting my engagement ring at a flea market, and I don't think that their quality is worth my time or money. If I were into this to make money, I'd be looking at the very-high end; not low-end volume sales.

I think that a lot of the impatience with the original poster is the fact that someone with her story comes along about once a week. Someone who started beading yesterday bounces into the group, saying that they bought some beads at Wal-Mart or the local craft shop and that now they're going into business, and can we tell them how to make a lot of money beading.

Fact is, I don't know how to make a lot of money beading. I suspect that there is an exceedingly tiny number of people who make a lot of money beading. Many of us have spent years or decades at our craft and make _no_ money beading. It's insulting to be told over and over that our hard-learned knowledge is worthless, and that if we only did some magic thing, that we too could make a fortune beading with wal-mart beads in our spare time.

It's fine to explain it all once, maybe even a hundred times, but week in, week out; year after year, it gets a little aggravating.

Kathy N-V

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:08:57 -0400, vj wrote (in message ):

Not me. Maybe in ten years, but not yet. I dream of making things as beautiful as Becki's or Sooz's. The day I can make a floral that makes me weep like Becki's, I'll think I've reached the top of my game.

BTW, we can't forget Shirley, our renaissance woman. Her talent in so many things is astonishing.

Kathy N-V

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:32:00 -0400, Christina Peterson wrote (in message ):

Another reason, which I think is common to many of us, is that I am reminded of my own mortality on a daily basis. I'll be grateful if I make it to see DD grow up, much less ever enjoy the luxury of grandchildren or a golden wedding anniversary.

My work will most likely outlive me. I want the message it sends to be one of a woman who worked hard to make something worthwhile, not someone who threw any old thing together to make a quick buck.

Kathy N-V

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Kathy N-V :

]Not me. Maybe in ten years, but not yet.

i sell my work. have for years. and i'll never match what Becki does for fun. you are still a very talented hobbyist!

]BTW, we can't forget Shirley, our renaissance woman. Her talent in so many ]things is astonishing.

no, of course not - those were just the first names off the top of my head!

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

's not what you take, when you leave this world behind you;it's what you leave behind you when you go. -- Randy Travis

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Kathy N-V :

]someone with her story comes along about once a week. Someone who ]started beading yesterday bounces into the group, saying that they bought ]some beads at Wal-Mart or the local craft shop and that now they're going ]into business, and can we tell them how to make a lot of money beading.

bingo. i think that's exactly what Sooz reacted to.

]It's insulting to be told over and over that our hard-learned ]knowledge is worthless

definitely.

]It's fine to explain it all once, maybe even a hundred times, but week in, ]week out; year after year, it gets a little aggravating.

maybe it should be part of the FAQ?

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

's not what you take, when you leave this world behind you;it's what you leave behind you when you go. -- Randy Travis

"I think that a lot of the impatience with the original poster is the fact that someone with her story comes along about once a week. Someone who started beading yesterday bounces into the group, saying that they bought some beads at Wal-Mart or the local craft shop and that now they're going into business, and can we tell them how to make a lot of money beading."

Below are the original posts I read. Kathy, I don't see any of the attitude you describe in them. In fact I see a lot of the realism about the barriers to one's prospects of success that you yourself are pointing to.

Please show me where you saw what you think of as an annoying desire to be given a formula for magical success, or what Kandice describes as a bid for nothing but strokes without an honest critique ...

Deirdre ~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Tell me what you think - some of the pieces don't thrill me much but it's nice to get feedback about what others like. And advice on how they are displayed on this website is also greatly appreciated.

Thanks! Mary " ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Thanks for the input Tina. This is a hobby that will never grow to selling in stores, etc... just mostly to friends and family and at local church craft shows. I am not looking to make a lot of money at it and just want to dabble for fun so I have not invested in more expensive parts just to sell at a price I am not sure I can get. I thought I would start small and see what interest I even generate from any of the pieces before I go too nuts! Although, I did buy a couple pricey lampwork beads and I am anxious to put something appealing together with those.

My first and foremost love and hobby is rubber stamping and scrapbooking - this is just for fun and maybe I can at least recoup my costs. But I do appreciate all the input - never know where things could go, I guess!

Mary "

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Deirdre S. :

]I know when I'm outnumbered,

you're not completely outnumbered. i did agree with you - i just had a different take on it.

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

's not what you take, when you leave this world behind you;it's what you leave behind you when you go. -- Randy Travis

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:20:24 -0400, Deirdre S. wrote (in message ):

I will, kiddo. Not tonight, though. I have a killer headache and want to sleep on the whole issue before my reply.

Thanks for understanding,

Kathy N-V

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:27:30 -0400, Deirdre S. wrote (in message ):

And that's a good thing. It would really make this newsgroup worthless if we were just a mutual admiration society. I value people with viewpoints different from my own -- it makes me go outside my little bubble and expand my world.

Maybe I'm reading something that's not here -- I looked at this as a sincere discussion of opposing viewpoints among people who respect one another. That's certainly how I've approached it.

Kathy N-V

I'm definitely NOT going pro. A professional is someone who makes the majority of there income at an endeavor.

Tina

"vj" wrote

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Christina Peterson" :

]I'm definitely NOT going pro. A professional is someone who makes the ]majority of there income at an endeavor.

but . . . i thought that was why you were looking for a business name? or did i misunderstand? i'm definitely not there yet, but i can sure dream. of course, at my age, it haven't got long!

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

's not what you take, when you leave this world behind you;it's what you leave behind you when you go. -- Randy Travis

That was my objection also - not that she wasn't trying to be helpful but because I felt "picked on" because I am new and am trying to learn along the way, as though I am not worthy to be in the company of beading artists or whatever. I can't even say for certain what all the components are in the jewelry I have made so far (a total of 4 necklaces and 6 bracelets - not a stockpile of "junk") but that is because I didn't know that I should be aware of all of that and frankly, my thoughts were if I could find the supplies at Michael's Arts and Crafts, for instance, that it must be ok to use them. I didn't set out with the intention to buy cheap and sell high and laugh all the way to the bank while people's items fell apart! I wanted some feedback on the look of the pieces I put together and was not looking for all compliments as Sooz thinks I was per her email to me. And Sooz - another example of your hostile tone - I have not been whining and don't appreciate you emailing me to say so! I was looking for constructive criticism, not rehashing the same thing over and over. For all I know, the clasps I have are sterling ....I just don't frankly know and am now keeping better track of what I am looking to buy.

This conversation has thoroughly worn itself out and I am sorry I ever asked for an opinion. I appreciate all the help I did receive. Mary Close To My Heart Consultant

Mom to Aimee, dedicated college student and Jacob, CP kid and aspiring mafia godfather

Exactly. :) Kathy, you are **so good** with words. I see your posts and often say to myself - "*that's* what I wanted to say!"

-- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs

LOL - yeah, when I get around to it - I promise. For now, the Bead Notes has a lot on the subject of marketing, selling and photography of beadwork.

-- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs

for some reason - and it is probably just me - I could not understand what you are saying here. I never said that.

-- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Kandice Seeber" :

](I've seen flame wars elsewhere, and this ain't it, ]folks).

amen!

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

's not what you take, when you leave this world behind you;it's what you leave behind you when you go. -- Randy Travis

Heck Mary,

I'd say that after this baptism by fire, you have definitely earned entry. Which is something no one needs to do anyway.

By no means are we all bead artists. What set up the hubbub is that most of us see sellers as people who want to be professionals. Which is different from being a new-ish beader looking for advice. You were giving a mixed message.

Hang around.

Tina