vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnospam (Kaytee) :
]Kinda hard to justify a "captain's mast" for a corpsman ]for standing slumped with hands in pockets, but that really ticked off the ]jarheads...
one young man, while i was there, had charges brought against him for something he swore he didn't do. so . . . instead of a captain's mast, he insisted on his right to a court martial - with a marine lawyer "thankyouverymuch". Jamie looked at him and nodded and said, "smart move!". i didn't know you could do that, but she's learning that Code of Military Justice thing right quick. [this from a kid who swears she's not smart!]
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
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's not what you take, when you leave this world behind you;it's what you leave behind you when you go. -- Randy Travis
That's something that DH was almost cornered into having to do last year when he was threatened with a captain's mast for something he didn't do. Hey, if you're right, you're right...why not go for making the person making the charges look stupid?
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Jalynne" :
]That's something that DH was almost cornered into having to do last year when he was ]threatened with a captain's mast for something he didn't do. Hey, if you're right, ]you're right...why not go for making the person making the charges look stupid?
yep. i just didn't know it was something you COULD do.
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
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's not what you take, when you leave this world behind you;it's what you leave behind you when you go. -- Randy Travis
Kaytee...I am a sailor's wife....I INSISTED on living off base, because i wanted to be able to live as much of my life on my terms as possible. It was a wise move, I believe. For the most part, we've been very happy this way. Yes, i still have to use his SSN for stuff, but you know what...it's ok with me, as long as i get to be a stay at home, home schooling mom with the ability to go anywhere i want and do what i want during the day....works for me.
Not always possible-- like when stationed overseas, or in areas where there is plenty of military housing available. Or rather, you usually CAN, but you might not get BAQ, especially if you are single or unaccompanied....
When hubby was stationed on Okinawa, we lived off-base for 13 months. 928 sq ft apt. Very expensive utilities. 3d floor, no elevator-- with an infant and a toddler to haul around. BAQ + COLA did not cover the entire cost, and this was on the low side of rental costs. We were glad to get on base as soon as something became available.
I was working off-base (teaching conversational English), and hubby was a "field grade" zero, so we could do things around the island (didn't take those trips to HK, etc., due to not wanting to haul rug rats along...), but junior enlisted and their dependants couldn't afford to go out on the town or play tourist very often (and few seemed to be interested in doing so, anyway). Kaytee "Simplexities" on
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 23:09:46 -0500, Kaytee wrote (in message ):
One of my aunts lives quite near the giant Rhine-Mein military base in Germany. The population of the base far exceeds the towns surrounding it. Yet one rarely sees the US military population (families or soldiers) around town. I don't understand it - the restaurants are good and cheap, the markets are really cool, and why go to a foreign country to hide behind a fence?
On one of my trips, I sat next to a woman who was returning to the US after a
20 year stint in Germany. I commented that she had probably seen the whole country stem to stern, and that she must have German (the language) down cold by now. I was shocked at the vehemence of her reply.
"I stay on Base. I will not add my money to their economy, and if the locals want to speak to me, they can learn English. The only ones that spend money off base are the kids leaving home for the first time, and all they do is go to bars."
We didn't have much to talk about after that.
The Babenhauser Kaserne still has US soldiers, and a few of those families mingle with the community at large, mostly at the public swimming complex. You rarely see any US presence in the shops, church or community activities. From what I hear on AFN (Armed Forces Radio), there is a lot to do on base, but I always think it's such a waste to spend all that time in a country and not even get to see look around.
Can any of you guys shed some light on why this phenomenon would occur? Is it "unofficially" discouraged? Cost can't be entirely a controlling factor, since many of the attractions and such in the area are free.
The Babenhauser Kaserne still has US soldiers, and a few of those families mingle with the community at large, mostly at the public swimming complex. You rarely see any US presence in the shops, church or community activities. From what I hear on AFN (Armed Forces Radio), there is a lot to do on base, but I always think it's such a waste to spend all that time in a country and not even get to see look around.
Can any of you guys shed some light on why this phenomenon would occur? Is it "unofficially" discouraged? Cost can't be entirely a controlling factor, since many of the attractions and such in the area are free.
Kathy N-V
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Must be an Army attitude. Or maybe a problem in the larger cities. In my 9 Air Force years in Germany, in a more rural area, I and most folks I knew got out and about a lot. Volksmarches, wine fests (I lived right on the Mosel River!), many good restaurants in nearby towns. At least in my unit, you weren't officially inprocessed till you'd had dinner at one particular place, and we had several others that could be considered squadron hangouts. My wife and I made a habbit of visitin Rothenburg am Tauber at Thanksgiving - nothing like rabbit and all the trimmings. Half a dozen bus tours left our base every weekend - always full.
Yes, there were also some who couldn't leave Little America, for whatever reason. Their loss.
Oh, I almost forgot the best reason for getting out and about in Germany - Autobahn driving. 85mph and still getting passed all the time. Wheeeeeeee Val
Yes, that's true, but when i CAN i will. In fact, if we were to move on base right now, we'd actually lose money because we get more housing allowance than our rent and basic utilities are. Overseas tours are always different, but the allowances have increased significantly in the past couple of years.
That's nuts. If/when we get stationed in Germany, i will definitely be going out into the community and experiencing the local flavour. It may very well be my only opportunity to see and do those things, might as well take it while I can.
I think the main reason it happens is that they're afraid, and in culture shock. Also, a lot of the military wives i've met would rather not go overseas at all, because they're so afraid to get out of their comfort zone, that they dare not venture away from anything familiar. There is a certain amount of prejudice, too, i'm sure. Just my feelings on the subject, nothing from any study...though it would be an interesting study...hmmmm....when i work on my psych degree, i might use that for a paper.
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 1:03:20 -0500, VManes wrote (in message ):
I love Rothenberg am der Tauber - the most touristy town in Germany, bar none. At Thanksgiving, it must be all right, but during the summer - hoo-eee! The last time I went there, I took my DD and my best friend, and they were both feeling homesick. We found the MacDonald's toute suite, and got to hear as many Boston accents and Massachusetts school tee shirts as we'd ever see at home. (Still had to argue with the staff about getting ice in our drinks, though - some things never change)
For those that haven't been, Rothenberg's claim to fame is that they were invaded by barbarians sometime in the distant past. The mayor challenged the head barbarian to a beer drinking contest. If the mayor won, the town would be spared. If the barbarian leader won, looting and pillaging a plenty. A giant beer stein was used for the contest, and the mayor chugged it all without a rest. (What a hero!) The town was spared.
The town re-creates the historic moment several times a day in the town square, supposedly with the original beer stein. Tourists by the thousands line up to take photos of a fat man drinking a beer. Also, the town is loaded with Christmas ornament shops, about one on every block. We get all of our "authentic" souvenirs here for friends.
Yeah, there's so much to see and do, and you can't get that kind of experience elsewhere. Language doesn't have to be a limiting factor: most people speak at least some English (it's a required subject in school), and German is almost mathematical in its precision. It's really not the toughest language to learn, although pronunciation can be a problem. Even DH, who speaks almost no German, gets by just fine with slowly spoken English, pidgen German and pantomime. Of course, you need a sense of humor to do those things, and a willingness to look foolish now and again.
Kathy N-V
Obligatory Bead Reference: Beaded beads can be very fun to make, and you end up with a finished product that is truly unique. I've been making some beaded beads out of leftover fire polished bicones from the Kimono. I simply right angle weave a rectangle of 5 x 5 units. I curl the tube and weave the two edges together. Then, if I feel like it, I'll embellish the tube bead with seed beads, little metal beads, whatever. I've made some beads that are big enough to hide a lobster claw clasp, making a necklace with no visible means of attachment.
I think it depends a whole lot on the ratio of officer and "skilled" enlisted vs "general duty" enlisted-- the more education people had, the more likely they were to go off base (at least, in Japan). Other factors were what sort of background they had-- people from large, ethnically/culturally mixed communities tended to go out more than those from "middle America" or the South.
While we were in Japan, the dollar was in a steep dive, compared to the yen, so cost was a major controlling factor-- made worse because COLA depended on the AVERAGE percentage of off-base spending; when the yen rate went up, off-base spending went down, and therefore COLA went down, which meant even less off-base spending. Not much in Japan was free-- the only beaches worth going to were private-- meaning you paid an entrance fee, and many places were restricted to upper ranks (like E-5 and above). Japan has no "equal opportunity" laws that apply to private enterprises-- the "boss" or the landlord gets to decide who is allowed to work for him, or use his facilities, based on any criteria he wants to use, and few wanted to deal with junior jarheads....
Then there was the language problem.... Not being able to read the signs or lables tended to inhibit both "shopping" and sightseeing, as did difficulties in conversation.The attitude of Japanese towards non-Japanese was off-putting to many (Okinawans seem to consider Americans to be "cute", but the general Japanese opinion is that non-Asians are about a half-step up from being monkeys... crazy ones at that). And of course, American teens seemed to think the Japanese/Okinawan teens were as weird as they considered the American teens....
Officially, it was encouraged to get to know the local community-- official introduction lectures gave an overview, base budgets helped pay for tours through the rec dept, and brought in crafts, cooking, and language teachers-- classes were rarely full. Various church groups had exchange programs with the on-base chapels, there were some "international" clubs that recruited American members to join in their activities, and some "joint exercises" with the Japanese National Defense Forces were intended to encourage socialization (but rarely did much "mixing" occur at the "socials"). The USO also was very active, and sponsored various tours, classes and other events that involved the local community. Kaytee "Simplexities" on
Because we have a lot of people here in the USof A that are either arrogant, or fearful, or both. There are many folks in the world who don't want anything that's "different".
I suspect that the fear you mention has a huge impact on it... maybe even more than is immediately obvious. A whole country and its language and customs is HUGE... and would be so intimidating to many people, especially those with limited education. You know how the legends go about some men saying "my kid don't need no college larnin'"? (more than just a legend... unfortunately.) Well, that's about FEAR. The same fear that makes some women attack others who have made different choices about childbearing, even when the choices don't harm the child... fear that somehow they don't measure up. (I've had harsh words aimed at me just because I chose natural childbirth, and I've seen others get taken to task for choosing an epidural... though the relatively small risks of an epidural are for mama far more than for baby. Brave woman who undertakes motherhood, either way!) Fear that the new culture will reveal them to be "stupid" because they don't understand the language, or because they make an innocent faux pas and people laugh. A confident visitor will laugh along, knowing that mistakes happen and no one seriously thinks they're stupid. An uncertain one will feel shamed.
That fear keeps some people from trying new things in their own country. In a different one, it must be overwhelming, so, it's safer to stay on base and adopt arrogance as a defense.
Kalera -- I about busted a gut when I read "Nice work if you can get it" LOL Becki "In between the moon and you, the angels have a better view of the crumbling difference between wrong and right." -- Counting Crows
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