vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from snipped-for-privacy@mindCHEMISEspring.com (Lee S. Billings) :
]Screaming kids (especially *very* young kids) on a plane are a pain, but I'll ]cut 'em a little slack during the periods of ascent and descent.
oh, i would too. but it went on for 4.5 HOURS. with both parents sitting right there beside him.
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
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----------- I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all.
Logic doesn't enter into this, Kalera. Parents say "selfish" because THEY want grandchildren, and you aren't giving in to their wishes. Other people say "selfish" for lots of different reasons, the most common one being that you (as a woman) aren't supposed to want a life of your OWN, you're supposed to want to sacrifice everything to Have Babies. Sometimes "selfish" is a synonym for "immature" -- after all, the only sign of maturity that matters is WANTING to take on the responsibility for another life, so if you don't want that you're only thinking of yourself. But mostly, it's just a magic-word argument. [1]
[1] Definition: any sort of negative label the use of which is automatically supposed to make your opponent abandon their position, like magic. It's a specialized form of the guilt-trip argument. Since women are heavily socialized to be "caring and unselfish", this is often a very strong magic word to use on us. Other common magic words in use at the moment are "unpatriotic" and "liberal" -- the assumption is that once you've dragged those into the discussion, you don't *need* to back up your own position.
When we went to pay, there was no bill. Some other guest at the resturant was so impressed with our behavior - even the youngest who was only about 4, that he had paid our entire bill.
Don't forget "angry." Women are never supposed to get angry, even when treated like shit. Typically used to try to silence those who are protesting an unjust situation. For instance, I'm not supposed to get angry at my brother for being a verbally and physically abusive asshole who's harrassed me most of his life. This attitude still persists, but they don't bring it up as much after I made it clear that I believe killing in self defense is a fine and dandy idea. Anger can be a very useful thing.
I was one of 6 kids. I don't know how old I was when I first went to Olly's restaurant, but my older brother and I were still in high chairs. We also behaved in church, and traveling, and other cultural activities. With 6 kids, that was the only option.
However, I also have been on flights coming home to Alaska, where the family (often military) has been Outside visiting family and they have been in transit for 12 hours or more. By the time they're on the final leg, the kids are either exhausted and asleep finally, or exhausted and unable to sleep and extremely uncomfortable (as well as the parents). The airlines try to avoid serving meals, and the lay-overs are often too short to rest or even eat.
I've often traveled to Calif, getting up at 5 AM for the 8 AM flight, changing planes twice, and arriving at the Oakland airport at 7 PM, and having been only several bags of peanuts and a 3 or 4 inch sandwich.
Funny. It's the opposite for me. I never would have done anything like that when I was young. But now I'm willing to say what needs to be said.
I do remember the time there were people talking loudly behind me in a movie theatre. After dirty looks, etc, I finally turned around and asked them to talk a little louder because there were parts of their conversations I couldn't hear. It worked, by the way.
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Christina Peterson" :
]It sounds like the parents were lazy. ]However, I also have been on flights coming home to Alaska, where the family ](often military) has been Outside visiting family and they have been in ]transit for 12 hours or more. By the time they're on the final leg, the ]kids are either exhausted and asleep finally, or exhausted and unable to ]sleep and extremely uncomfortable (as well as the parents). The airlines ]try to avoid serving meals, and the lay-overs are often too short to rest or ]even eat.
i suppose that scenario is possible. the problem, i guess, is that she didn't once even bother to TRY to get him to quit kicking the seat or quit screaming. and BOTH parents were right there beside him. the plane was completely full, or Johnny and I would have moved. the flight started about 10am. **shrug** just one more reason some people shouldn't be parents. the kid was STILL acting up on the way through the concourse. when Johnny and i gave the kid the "dirty look" the mother started yelling at US.
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
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vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Christina Peterson" :
]We also ]behaved in church, and traveling, and other cultural activities. With 6 ]kids, that was the only option.
that's what my dad thought, too.
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
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----------- I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all.
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Christina Peterson" :
]After dirty looks, etc, I finally turned around and asked them to ]talk a little louder because there were parts of their conversations I ]couldn't hear. It worked, by the way.
LOL! i'll have to remember that one!
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
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On Wed, 12 May 2004 17:08:51 -0400, Christina Peterson wrote (in message ):
Are these parents totally inexperienced? To this day, I always carry food when we go on plane trips, because even if food is served on a flight, the odds that it's something my child will eat are slim. I carry a liter bottle of water for myself, so I don't end up dehydrated. A kid is allowed a carry on, so we always used DD's carry on for her food and entertainment needs, as well as a change of clothing, Just in Case.
Don't these parents consult with their kids' pediatricians before flying? DD's pediatrician practically ordered me to give her some liquid benedryl before boarding the flight, so she would sleep. He also had us try it on her beforehand, in case she had an atypical reaction and got wired from Benedryl, instead of sleepy. Bob got Benedryl as well, because he is NOT a good flyer.
My favorite in-flight toy for DD when she was small was a roll of tape, which was a forbidden object at home. She'd roll out big lengths of it, and stick tape all over the tray table. It was quiet, neat, and kept her busy. When the flight was over, I'd gather the tape into a ball and toss it into the trash on the way out. A piece of string in my pocket was also great for impromptu games of cat's cradle. Of course, I have a million stories tucked away in my head for when everything else fails.
When she was older, I bought a bunch of those tiny classic games on keychains: an Etch a Sketch, Boggle, things like that, and an egg full of Silly Putty. Those things are also quiet and kept her occupied. She has a Game Boy and a Walkman with plenty of books on tape. DD will usually bring a book or two - things that are easy to pick up and put down. The Guiness Book of World Records was a recent travel book.
To make sure I behave, I always buy myself a silly "bodice ripper" or Patricia Cornwell novel for the flight. I read very quickly, and usually finish well before we land. I leave the novel in the seat pocket for the next bored passenger.
BTDT. I've found that Lunchables (a prepackaged crackers and cheese kind of thing marketed to children) are good for those kinds of flights. They don't require refrigeration for 24 hours or more, are very lightweight, and taste better than most airline "food." The turkey and cheese isn't half bad. The breakfaast ones and the pizza are totally disgusting and messy. Dried fruit is also light, filling and will keep you going on those flights that last forever.
If I have time before the flight, I order a low calorie meal or a fruit plate. The odds of the airline getting it right are about 50/50, but if they remember it, the quality is usually far better than most of the meals they serve.
Flying with kids isn't that bad, but you have to be prepared. A tired, hungry child getting dragged all over and bumped with carry-on items is going to misbehave, I guarantee it. If you keep the baggage to a minimum, it's a whole lot easier. When I travel with DD, I either check everything possible or send the bags ahead. It's not that expensive, but it does take time. Once I decided that she was growing too quickly for either strategy, and I bought her a new basic wardrobe in Vienna. (Not an option for everyone, I know. Still, the clothing I bought turned out to cost just about what I would have paid at home)
We've shipped our dirty clothing home via the cheapest postage rate, and only hand carried my meds and the things we needed for the flight. The clothes arrived a month later, still dirty, but it was a whole lot easier than trying to manage a child, her car seat, a flight and luggage all by myself. We've always bought DD a seat, even when she was young enough to go on my lap. Overseas flights are just too long to have no space for your kid. We brought her car seat on the flight, and she slept almost the entire time.
I agree with all your tips. And I also agree that many of them have extra costs that may not be in the budget of the young family. And of course most people are not semi-professional travelers.
But I really think that all these preparations only minimize the problem. Ten or 15 or more hours of flight and confinement is way over the top for most quite young children, especially those who have never been to school. And often their parents are also exhausted too.
I can't remember my kids ever having been bad travelers. Not all kids are. (Eg, my granddaughter can NOT sit still!) Usually parents can work together with their children so that there is not a lot of disruption, but sometimes the parents are conscientiously doing the best they can.
I just don't like hearing that it's bad to travel with children because they might be disruptive, and/or that if the children are disruptive they have bad parents.
I always bring food on board, especially if I'm travelling with the kids. Most parents of young kids know not to leave the house without some carrot sticks and graham crackers,and a bottle of water!
------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
In Vegas, we went to a Cirque de Soleil show called "Mystere". CdS is pretty overwhelming and intense, though beautiful. I was annoyed to see that people showed up late for the show -- which includes performers *in* the audience. Showing up late is kind of like jumping onstage. Really rude.
There was a tiny little girl there with her parents -- and in the 2nd row! She started to wail about 5 minutes into the show. Really scream. Her daddy had to carry her out of the theater -- winding his way among performers who were doing things that required no distraction in order to keep the players safe! It was madness.
The stupid thing -- after that, he came BACK IN with the child. More screaming. Out again. Back in. Out again. I thought the ushers -- who have a more-difficult job than most theater ushers do -- were going to have a stroke. Finally he came back in and sat way back in the theater, up in the back rows.
What the hell were those parents thinking? And if his daughter was going to scream repeatedly, why didn't he stay out of the theater? (There were dozens of things to do out there -- it wasn't simply a theater lobby, but stores, ice cream fountain, casino lights, lots of entertaining stuff.) Sure, the poor, poor guy had paid around $100 for his ticket. (And his daughter's.) But so had WE. Everyone in the theater had paid at least $100 per ticket. Not only that, but the slightest misstep in a performance could mean death to the performer.
This tiny child was way too young to be there, period. Even Kevin-The-Generous-Soul and Child-Adorer was miffed. It was just plain dumb. ~~ Sooz
------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
I have no problem with children in public. As long as they are as well-behaved as I was when I was little.
~~ Sooz
------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
ROFL, I do that for my big kids AND for Mike! For extended-day roadtrips we always pack sandwiches and fruit. The kids know now that the ONLY reason we pull into a McDonald's (or other food place) is to use the bathrooms and maybe get more water. They don't even try to beg for fries anymore.
Haw haw haw! What's so unique and wondrous about humans? We use up everything on the planet and kill each other. Blehh! What a toxin! ~~ Sooz
------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
No one *dares* tell me I went without giving birth because I'm "selfish". I will then tell them the horrible story of how ruined I was to be found sterile at age 19 -- with details of the surgery and recovery. Hope they feel like heels. ~~ Sooz
------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
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