The Beadmakers Liberation Front

Totally. Thank you Tina.

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 20:09:28 -0500, Kandice Seeber wrote (in message ):

Gee thanks, Kandice. Just when I almost got over the emotional trauma...

:-)

back on topic: I see lots of lampwork beads on Ebay and Just Beads that appear to sell for pitifully small amounts of money. I've bought some of these beads in the past and almost invariably, they aren't of a quality that makes me happy. Sure, sometimes you'll find a bargain on a bead that the buying public has overlooked, but usually it's a "you get what you pay for" situation.

As some of you have mentioned, Ebay just isn't an ideal venue for obtaining retail prices. As bad as it is for beadmakers, it's far worse for the makers of completed jewelry, who seem to be lucky to recoup the cost of materials. An organized group would do little or nothing to change this - there are too many people out there who are willing to undercut the competition, new people are jumping on the Ebay bandwagon every day, and the general public doesn't seem to understand the link between price and quality.

We have been "trained" to think that the only indicator of a bargain is price. For most people, the quality of an item takes a back seat to getting the cheapest price possible. Look at all the people who frequent Wal-mart, even to the detriment of their own communities. They don't seem to understand that it's not a bargain if you end up coming home with something that's junk.

Consider my "black pants" example: I own an outrageous number of seemingly identical black pants. I've bought them from many places, from Land's End to Nordstroms to yes, Wal-mart. For a long time, I thought of my black pants as a commodity item, where one was just as good as another.

Then I was folding laundry one day and took a good look at a load of black pants. Although the pants ranged in age from several months to several years, some pants looked like new, and some had aged horribly. One pair had shrunk unevenly, leaving the legs at two different lengths. Looking at the tags, I realized that the price of the pants was inversely related to the quality - the "cheap" pants ended up costing the most, because they looked like hell after a very short time, while the more expensive ones held up for years. I don't buy cheap black pants any longer.

I think that the people complaining about low selling prices should look inward, rather than outward. If your beads are truly unique and technically perfect, you'll have the world beating a path to your door - and probably sooner rather than later. Kandice, you're a perfect example of this. (even though you are evil and "heh, heh, heh" at me all the time) You really haven't been at your craft for a very long time, but I suspect that you have very few beads that go unsold (or sell for a pittance). Your beads are beautiful, and your customers recognize that they are well worth the money.

As you guys know, I don't sell anything. But I do work very hard at improving my skills, and try not to let anything leave my house that's less than perfect. You know what? I have people offering me money all the time for my jewelry, and I do much less than no advertising. It was no different when I was in the working world: I was constantly working to improve my skills, and let the money take care of itself. And it did - even now headhunters call me at regular intervals to discuss very well paying jobs.

Luck certainly has something to do with it, but I think that it's a very minor piece of the equation. Do what you love, strive to constantly improve, and never start thinking that you can stop learning; and the money will follow.

Off my soapbox,

Kathy N-V

ROFLMAO!!! :D I can't stop. I just love the phrase too darn much, and always imagine it with an evil little girl's voice. Thank your DD for me, willya?

Thank you for this. Every bead I put up for sale sells in a very short amount of time, and mostly for a very decent price - even the ones on my website. I never have any inventory. I know it may sound like I am bragging, but I am not. I have to disappoint many customers who email or call and ask what I have on hand that they can buy right now. This is why I have such a difficult time making up any invetory for a show. It just sells too fast (not that I'm complaining!!). I feel very very fortunate that this is the case. Many lampworkers do have a lot of beads in inventory, even though their beads are just gorgeous. For some reason, people just like my stuff, and they like how I market my stuff. I am really happy about that!! Of course, I work like a dog and I have no other life, but that's the way it goes. I wouldn't change it for millions upon millions of dollars, either.

hi everyone, i'm a newbie to your newsgroup and have only been beading for a short time... i haven't ventured into lampwork as yet, mostly due to the expense (but i think my own ignorance lol)... Kandice, I have just had a look at your website and your jewellery and beads are absolutely exquisite... I noticed on your auction page that these bracelets initially started at $9.99 and are now well over $70 -- so it goes to show that the $9.99 is an attraction that brings in the bids... and it works! BTW is that price acceptable to you?? or is it only just covering costs? (i only ask because i don't want to 'overpay' for beads, but i certainly want to know what they are worth because as the seller & manufacturer you need to make $$$$$ -- otherwise what is the point! -- Also, I would like to think that as part of the beading community I'm not hurting any of my "sisters"...)

I make this post as i have been reading your "Beadmakers Liberation Front" thread... I, like others within your group, can see both sides. As a beader, obviously the less i pay for my beads, the more profit goes into my own pocket and that's only a natural want of anybody. Having said that, when you see such beautiful beads as Kandice's you can clearly see their worth and I can see how the collection fettish could quite easily stick.

I will keep reading and throwing my 2c worth in every now & then if that's ok... I'm just starting up my market here (in Western Australia) and would like to learn everything possible... oh & Kandice you'll hear from me again, because my goal now is to buy at least one of your beautiful pieces and I will also make a point of having a look at the rest of the sites in this group... I had no idea there was so much variety, and so many talented people... and i love the way that every piece is as individual as the person that makes them.

Your friend in beading, Sharon (no www, no links... yet!)

Hi Sharon - welcome to the group. The bead sets that you refer to aren't bracelets, but temporarily strung bead sets that I have made. Thanks for the kind words! Yes, the auction prices I am getting are pretty decent. The sets that have 9-13 focals and some spacers have been going for about $70-$85, and this is pretty good. The larger sets vary widely - from $90-$140. These are still lower than retail, but higher than wholesale, and for me that's just fine. I sell many beads from my website at retail, so it all evens out eventually. If you buy on ebay from me you will likely never overpay. I think there have only been two times when a bead set has gone way over what I would have charged retail. And that was because two people wanted the same set really really bad. :) Auctions work that way! :) I can't speak for anyone else though. I sure appreciate your comments - and hey, feel free to chime in anytime! We don't bite...much.

Hi Kandice, i've had a bit of a search around ebay & doesn't seem to be much the same quality as yours. Which leads me into my next chime hehe lol -- the lower quality beads that i've looked at are cheap -- both in $$$ & appearance... a lot of them i wouldn't even think about bidding on let alone watching the auction, they are just not the beauty that a lampwork bead should be... It goes back to the question/thread that i've read here recently -- a profession or a hobby! My jewellery making is a hobby, and i do it because i love making them & giving them as gifts -- it's only since christmas my friends have been on at me to sell them, hence my venture into ebay... still to set myself up as a sell er, but will be sure to post my url when i do...

Kandice, are these able to be split & rewired with clasps etc... what materials would you recommend using, ie. anything different from my normal beading -- i would rewire them in exactly the same way you prepare them, do you sell made jewellery pieces too???

Thank you for making me feel welcome, i look forward to getting to know you all better...

Cheerz, Sharon

Well, I guess it happens in every creative field. Sooner or later people want to organixe to patrol everything. I never join in this and have always been independent. Where I might agree with some of the goals of such a thing, I don;t like losing even partial control of my creative efforts, and what I have built. Some of this is because of the entertainment business wars and some of it involved in crafts, such as beading. I have very different ideas about marketing my things than others. If anyone read my other answer, you saw how people seek to control. And possibly, there is nothing to be done about newbies and inferior quality, except to be obviously better than they are and keep ahead. Educate your patrons and customer, and hold your deepest secrets of how you operate close to the vest. I am involved in communities, on the internet for entertainers. I share alot of stuff, but not my central core. I am well known for helping people, answering newbie questions, but I keep sacred that which makes me different and the marketing strategies that have kept me ahead of the pack for 24 years. I go to conventions for entertainers and I do not divulge my most precious secrets. although, she said laffing, right before competitions happen, I have been known to hand out some of my own props and teach a simple routine to people who don't have anything planned. I lovingly do this because I want to see people grow and learn. I never think about the fact that they could win the judges and the popular public votes. And this is because I am a stand out in my field. I has never been my intent to do so, but maybe I am stacking the deck in my own favor ? I love this stuff and desire to teach and want people to love it as much as me. We have stopped going to one local bead store, with any jewelry on. I usually tuck iu my shirt, and take it ou when we leave. My stuff is different and invariably we cause a fuss with other shoppers, and my intent is to buy supplies, not to usurp their sales or sales strategy. I boldly pronounce that their staff is not all that knowledgeable, their classes not the best, and their products ready to sell and wear, are far below whatever else is out there. They are not presented well and are overpriced student work. I am not just comparing them to mine. Morethan once I have felt sold down the river on some beads I bought. I patronize them infrequently now, preferring to shop ebay and other places where things might be better priced and i do shop the yearly bead and gem shows. I will always buy from single sellers or artists I love and trust. The public doesn;t know or care about warring between artists. They don;t. All they care about is what they like. They are never going to care about rules and regs, so your job is to educate and make them understand, at least about you and what you do. And here'a the biggest rule for that. Lovingly teach them about your own quality and NEVER mention that there are people who are lower than you. Don;t complain about or diss other artists. Don't ! You'll distance them so fast, and they will never come back ! The best bead artists I know, never tell me anything about the others. This is a very common mistake creative people make. On this list or any other, it's okay to gripe and complain, but not to clients. As far as they need to be concerned, you're #1, with a bullet. Honesty and humility are the glue that sticks clients to you. Along with a prettty fine product, you'll win. There is no union or org. that I wouls accept to be telling me how to handle my lbusines .... Rainbow

Amen, Rainbow!

I'm finally at the last post of this thread and will be letting it all sink in and taking from it what I need to promote my craft and in turn promote the artists that I support and appreciate. Contrary to that "broad brush" used to paint customers and potential customers/buyers by some of the artists in that public forum.

I wonder how many other buyers had a bad taste in their mouth?

Anyway, I'm all for raising the bar on quality and self-worth and educating. Viva Las Artistas!

I didn't realize that I was a bead collector until quite recently when I opened my artist bead container and lovingly fondled the beads, only to close it up again while releasing a sigh of bliss and satisfaction. Now I'll have to figure out how best to display all those wonderful pieces of art glass.

With that said, I am also a jewelry maker. Creating a piece incorporating an artist bead whether it's yours or another of my favorite artist's is an act of inspiration, introspection and respect. If I choose to sell my creation, it would be a disservice to myself and to the artist to sell it for no profit IMO. Art takes many forms and there's nothing disrespectful about making money from it.

What I meant about the "not to turn into jewelry to resell for a profit" comment was that a lot of my lampwork ends up in pieces made as gifts.

So let me try again. LOL! Most of my beads end up as standalone collectibles, quite a few end up in designs destined to be special gifts and the smallest number are incorporated into jewelry designs that are sold.

Sometimes I'm not very good at expressing myself. :-)

T>>

Thank you, Rainbow! It does take one to know one. I'm happy to know you and Sunny (give her a hug for me) two of my favorite talented and generous of soul women. I wear a lot of your creations and I wear them proud!

When I finally make my way to your part of the country, lets get some Chinese food. :=)

I think you are very good at expressing yourself and you should continue to do so without worry of repercussions. Well in a perfect world, ay? Believe it or not I do understand where you're coming from and appreciate that there's a part of your soul in the beads you create, that is what art is all about, a vision! Think of it this way, once the bead is sold to a designer, it takes on a new owner and sometimes it whispers to that owner it's desire to have an additional soul to have that vision expanded upon. Once it leaves the hands of the designer it whispers to a person to buy it. It's not the end of the vision it's an appreciation of it.

Does this make me a visionary? You and me both! :=)

Heh,heh.... You haven't got that on your own... I do that *all* the time! LOL

Mavis

Hi Sharon,

Glad you have come to join us. Another Aussie. This must be the hottest part of summer now, for you. Here in Fairbanks, Alaska we just had our first day of above freezing weather yesterday. It was a record high.

What kind of beading have you been doing?

Tina

My mother used to collect thimbles. She had all manner of shadow type boxes, some nothing more than cubicles and others more elaborate with glass, some even had glass doors that opened for close viewing and fondling pleasure. Hey, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. LOL Something along those lines? I'll have to run it past dh who is very clever and creative in the framing department.

psst....mirrors....

Off to surf the web, I'll report back if I find anything interesting.

Hi Sharon - heck yeah, slipt them up! They are meant to be taken off of the copper wire so you can do whatever you wish with them. As for making them into jewelry, they are very very durable and will withstand anything your other beads will withstand, so have fun. I make jewelry only very occasionally now - I am so busy making beads! :) Also, as for lampwork on ebay - a lot of that cheap stuff you are referring to is imported from China and India and is not high quality. The Czech lampwork is pretty good quality, but might not be annealed and may break. But that's better than the Chinese or Indian lampwork in my opinion. That's a highly debatable topic, of course. Here are some links for you to get more information. Both are hosted on my site, but were created by Sooz.

You are right! I was looking and oh my...am I the only one that finds some of the curio cabinets tacky? I did see one I liked that is made from rosewood, an open table top design, I liked the feeling of space. Table top won't do in this house.

Not all beads lend themselves to sitting properly. How will you do that, Sooz?

Sorry, Sooz. I was thinking out loud, mainly for myself I guess. If I found something unique I'd share it just to get opinions. :=)