The Beadmakers Liberation Front

< Thank you so much for that link! I too was feeling the same way they were. I also thought I was selling to low and have change my direction of though. Mary... I never considered myself a designer... but I do now. :) After all... I did design and create a beautiful necklace and a few other items and I did not give myself the proper credit untill the lovely person who bought my first ever creation told me how wonderful she loved it and it was beautiful. It was then I had to tell myself over and over that she was right and my brain was lying to me. Just a check in... did I set my starting bid at a fair price? I am new at this stuff and have no idea what I am really doing, but I do know this... if I saw this from anyone else I would buy it in a second. I have bought others items that were similar and was very happy with them. :) Let's face it... anyone who would pay what I do for RAW Paua shell has to have a love for it. BTW I do want more than just my money back, so I can buy and create other more interesting and beautiful items. ALL of YOU are so good for me! Thank you so much!

Harry My Ebay Auctions are at

Aside from beads, I have a different home based business, that is a family entertainment company. I perform as a balloon artist, comedy entertainer, clown and magician. I sing the same lament on that one as well. All too often, a creative endeavor is sold for less than it's worth. On the opposite side is that people really want the most for their money and might not be really willing to pay for what you are ... catch 22, huh ? People try to bargain. Really bad entertainers shine a sorry light on that business and people who cheapen the percieved value of beads and beadwork do as well. My work is fairly high quality, but you shoud see those folks who try to wear me down on the prices. And the seller who doesn't adjust their prices does us all a disservice. Having recently sold much of my precious work at greatly rduced prices, I know how it feels to get less than it's worth. The buyer delighted to get my stuff for way less. ( Not you Margie ... you're an honorable person, and a nice lady ! ). Of the two buyers, one of them will not even answer any emails. I don't even know if she lke what she bought. To her it was cheap stuff to stock her store with. The artistic value of it doesn't matter at all. About the most you can ever do is to remain strong and educate people. Hope that your buyers know your work and love it and buy it necause they realize value. Casual craftspeople and people who sell cheap, are mostly doomed, anyway. They can't really make that much money and soon will work themselves out of business, and their craft becomes a hobby they don't make money with. Rainbow

That's great!

One really big thing about pricing beads is how they will be used.

If I'm only going to buy beads for myself, as an end product, then paying retail is a reasonable thing for me to to for those few beads. But if I'm going to put them in jewelry to sell I have to work it differently.

Take the cottage rose flowers and bunny sets for $200. What could a necklace of those beads be sold for? According to most formulas, I should double the price of my materials and add in my time at $40 per hour (for the amount of time a fast professional would take to make it), to come up with wholesale and double that for a retail price. So theoretically, it should sell for At the very very least $900. More if it is especially well designed.

OK then do it backwards. If a necklace of those beads could be sold for $500, and I am selling my skills as an artist, not as a retailer, I would only get $250 wholesale, which would barely cover my costs to make the necklace and get it to the gallery.

Now, I don't think THAT is reasonable.

I'm finding that when I make jewelry from a set of lampwork, my mark up on materials is very small, and I can't make more than a profit of $20 or $30 on a necklace that will sell at the gallery for $150 to $200.

Tina

Another thing about the admonishment to raise prices, is that is true only of professional work, and I would guess that there are more hobbyist and learning beadmakers out there than there are professionals.

Tina

This goes for anything one is selling..

People say to us (DH & I run another business) our prices are higher than the opposition and that they'll go with them.. we say fine, but don't expect the same quality. They come back in time, because they recognise the quality of our product - we have seen this time and again. People don't just buy on price - they want quality too. I've said this before.. If I see a cheap product I think 'I wonder what's wrong with it?' and will buy the dearer product almost every time..

It only lowers our self-esteem to sell below the value something is worth. I just won't do this.. I'm worth more than that and my products are too.. I fully support this thread. All power to Rita!! And thank you Mary..

Mavis

somebody just brought that up over there.

And even if you are a "beginner" or a "hobbyist", you still at need to price it to a certain minimum, not just "enough to get costs back" and there are those who don't even do that!!! But I wouldn't expect to pay $150 for a strand of 10 beads, without corina's, or Kandice's name behind them, especially if I see uneven dots, 2 bubbles where one should be, uneven holes, beadrelease still in them, etc.

That's where the fact that you should pay yourself for time, but at a rate of what your learning level is. You wouldn't expect to pay someone who just got out of plumbing school the same as a person who has been doing it for 20 years (or someone who has been apprenticing for 6 months, etc). Time in grade/pay needs to be accounted for.

mary

If it's good enough to sell, it doesn't matter if you are a hobbyist or a beginner.. The sentiment is the same.. It's worth the extra $ - IMNSHO

Mavis

I've never believed in price fixing or a group governing prices... but I don't think this is what they are getting at. I think the whole thrust of the thread is pricing which reflects the value of the beads.. the worth of them - not only to the beader/artist but also to the customer. For example, if I purchase something for nix, then it's not worth much to me.. whereas if I purchase something for a reasonable price then it becomes more valuable/precious to me. Hence, I will take more care with it etc, etc...

Blah, blah, blah... Hope that all makes sense

Mavis

Objectivity is a good thing Kandice...

Calls for open-mindedness though. It'll be interesting to see.. heh,heh

Mavis

Wow, I have so many issues I could bring up about this concept. =o)

First, I would like to comment that I am offended when people use the term Nazi lightly. There is nothing even remotely similar to lampworkers and a Nazi.

Second, while I feel the concept of people placing a personal value on their own work is a good one, determining an industry standard, just because you happen to produce a product within a certain category, just won't work. That would be like asking all beadweavers to charge at least X amount of dollars per hour for their work. Their lives may be so busy that their hourly worth is tremendous, but they may not yet have all the skills to produce a quality piece of beadwork.

Third, I have been involved in the beading world for over 30 years now. I started creating simple beaded pieces with my Grandmother at age 8. By age 12, I was selling simple beaded jewelry to friends, at the beach and at small craft shows. By 18 I was selling beads. By 25 I had an established retail store. While I am not the most experienced person in this industry, I am very experienced. I have made it my life to learn as much about beads in all their forms as I can. Along with that self-education comes a bit of understanding on how the market (as it relates to beads and beading) works. There will always be the person who feels they need to "undercut" the next guy to stand out. There will always be the person who feels the "value" of their time is worth more than the average market will bear. There will always be the person who understands their worth, and is willing to work with the market demand to find that happy medium.

That being said, there is such a tremendous influx of lampworkers at this time, that the market will be thin. This is the progression of any industry. As the market thins, your competition increases. You can compensate for that by looking within ones self and determining what it is you as an individual can do to change. You can use your competition to better yourself. (which, I feel, is what should always be done) This same set of standard rules of business apply to any field. Beadmakers, beadsellers, beaders, etc. Your service, your reputation, your style, your adaptability, your personal input into the industry, all of these things are what can help set you apart from your competition. This is what will raise the value of what you have to offer. Not what others choose to sell for. The value of the beads I sell are in direct relation to their quality, my service, my reputation, and the volume I sell them in. They are not, nor will they ever be, in relation to what others sell theirs for. I do however, work under a standard industry guideline. I do not intentionally undercut others and I do not overprice. Were I to make my own beads for sale, I would again follow along those same guidelines. I would understand what the market can bear, I would learn where and who my customers are, and I would supply them with what they want at the prices they demand. If I were really lucky, I would be some of the very few who know how to escalate themselves to the top of that imaginary list of the best of the best.. =o) If the online auction places are not bringing you the dollar amount you feel you deserve, then find the location that will. It works better to locate your customers rather than try to force yourself upon them.

While the entire bead industry can and should be viewed as one big family, it is the individuals within that family that make it what it is.

A think a revolution to help others learn to value themselves as artists, craftspeople, creators, sellers, business people, etc would garner much more worth.

Beki

My hubby used to sell insurance. He had the same problems there. He would have a good product and spend a lot of time and effort learning about it and teaching potential clients about it, only to have them go to a cheaper alternative... then they would have the gall to come back and complain to my hubby because the service stunk or the product was bad ... that's one reason he's not selling it anymore.

I have a certain price in mind when I sell beads, kits or jewelry - it includes my cost, my time and my creativity. If I can't get that price, I'd just as soon give it away! I've found over and over again when I cut my prices to try to sell more - say when I'm in a financial jam - I actually sell LESS. Go figure...

Well that's what AutumnH said in the forum "I learned long ago (as a Mary Kay consultant) that lowering a price lowers the perceived value." It's just hard to stick it out and keep believing in your own vision when sales are low.

If someone makes a professional product, I consider them professionals. That's why I differentiated between them and beginners/hobbyists. I'm obviously referring to the a level of expertise as opposd to how much money someone is making.

And frankly, I looked at Wet Canvas and went to some of the bead site of the people making comments. Not all of them made nice beads.

Tina

Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this problem?

Tina

It's interesting, my show partner and I had a run-in with some small store owners over the weekend. We both had our beads priced for wholesale since it was primarily a wholesale show. I was willing to take a deeper discount for a reasonable quantity, and said so (30% off $300 purchase). These ladies were very unhappy with this and quite vocal about it, saying we were obviously unwilling to work with them. Well, yes, we were. I'm not cutthroating my own income to make their store sales easier. Nobody else complained, and I came home to 3 large orders, so obviously I'm doing something right. I do appreciate their position, but I think they had difficulty in even perceiving mine. I politely told them I had beads in several stores already, sold at the same prices. If their local market can't handle that, there's not much I can do about it.

Try selling computers! I did that for three years for a major computer manufacturer. I'd configure a system based on what the client wanted to do with it only to have them go to Circuit City and buy an $800 integrated system for playing high end games. I still remember a kid who came in with his dad to buy his system for college - graphics design major. I configured a system for about $1800, with printer and office software. He wanted the $600 computer - fully integrated, barely enough RAM to run Windows, Works Suite, and a 15" monitor. I tried telling him that that system wasn't made for his usage. He looked at me with such a haughty look and ask if I was going to be a graphic design major. I told him no but I had 22 years of drafting, including 7 years of doing printed circuit board design with CAD software. He said that wasn't the same thing and I informed him it was - both are graphics intensive and that system wasn't for him. He insisted, Dad bought it. And after they left the store I added text to the order that I advised the client that that system was NOT going to suit his needs for the next four years.

I tried my honest best to get people the most value for their money and I was treated like a used car salesperson! I will never put myself in that position again. I hold nothing against the company, which closed our location last March and left me without a job. I can't do anything about the commission-hungry sharks that are out there stealing money from people who don't know what to get when it comes to computers.

"Karleen/Vibrant Jewels" wrote in message news:U_gWb.20135$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...

Nope. I had marked your other post as unread so I could reply to it. I totally agree that what I'm going to do with the bead(s) plays a part in how much I feel I can pay. I'll pay more for a bead for me than one that I'm going to put into a piece to try and sell.

I also look at the size of the sets - I tend to not use an entire set in any piece I make. So I may see a large set that I love, but can't see being able to make enough pieces out of it (repetition gets old for me) so I may not buy or bid.

And I'm watching this thread here and at WC since I'm just getting started selling finished pieces and hopefully, when I think my beads are ready, to sell beads also.

Kathy K

Did they think your wholesale price was too high? or were they upset because you were selling items less than they were?

Karen, your BINs are very reasonably priced. I can't imagine your wholesale being anything but a good deal. As for 30% off $300, that's a good deal too.

Tina