Summarize to your heart's content, but when you edit, be sure to leave in the proper attribution lines and take out those that are not longer relevant. The fact remains that I did not write what you attribut to me.
Elizabeth
Well, there are a couple places for sale...but the bad news is that housing prices are through the roof in this area! (Which does help in terms of funding the schools, but has it's drawbacks :-/ ) I suppose it's cheaper than paying for private school, though, and at least one is earning equity ;-) What I can't believe is people who are paying through the nose for housing *and* coughing up big bucks for private school. (And for the record, our schools aren't perfect, but I do think they're pretty darned good, and we have a very good principal, which makes a huge difference.)
Best wishes, Ericka
Might be worth it.
CWould you believe that makes no difference where I live? As I understand it, we pay nothing in taxes for our school until the next school levy passes because there hasn't been a levy since our house was built. The schools also don't benefit from an increase in property value until the next levy. There are at least five new housing developments just in our township and probably several more in the rest of the school district and prices are shooting up. That's an awful lot of money the schools aren't getting and they still have to deal with increasing class sizes. My understanding of the system is far from perfect and I'm certain others taxpayers don't understand it at all so there is always the possibility that the next levy (whether new or renewal) will get voted down. Then the schools are really stuck. Even though the state supreme court has declared the school funding methodology unconstitutional at least four times, nothing is going to change until we sweep all the current jerks out of the state house. Even that might not be enough.
Private schools and "charter" schools are a huge thing here. They charge a lot of tuition (although some of them offer scholarships and grants to build diversity or meet some charitable criteria) so they can afford to hire the best available teachers. That is another reason why the teachers I have to deal with are so bad--the cream of the crop work elsewhere.
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Yeah, different states and localities have different ways of funding the schools. We get a small amount of federal funding (about 1-2 percent of the school budget), a little bit from the state (about 12 percent state aid and 8 percent from sales tax reventues), and the big majority from local funding (75 percent, comes from the county general fund). The county board of supervisors determines the amount that goes to the schools, and most of the revenues come from real estate taxes and personal property taxes. When it comes to capital improvements, those are usually funded by bonds, which the voters vote on (and fortunately, we usually pass bond referenda with a substantial margin).
Yeah, in Michigan years ago, residents used to vote on the school "millage." We lived in an area with a lot of retired folks who weren't particularly interested in paying taxes to support something that wasn't benefitting them directly, so not surprisingly, the schools really struggled. I don't know if they still have that system there.
We attract pretty good teachers partly because we pay well and have decent benefits. We certainly *should* pay well, as the cost of living is very high here. But I think it also goes to show that it really does make a difference when you're willing to pay well for talent. I don't know why a lot of areas think they should be able to pay teachers like dirt and still get fabulous, motivated teachers. That wouldn't work in any other company I'm familiar with. Those who pay well and have good benefits attract the most talented employees (and manage to retain them, surprise surprise).
Best wishes, Ericka
snip
I'm sad to have to say that these two paragraphs describe exactly what I was saying about the schools in St. Lucie County. As with most things, there are kids who excel despite the lack of good education, but too many are just overlooked and pushed ahead.
Lucille
I wonder if it has to do with the mentality of the area. For instance, the median income in the State of Wisconsin is $46,000. Per capita income is about $30,000. That's not very high, and statistics vary slightly. I've seen much lower numbers.
Anyway, if the average Joe makes about $30,000 a year (I've seen numbers as low as $28,000), he's looking at teacher's salaries based on his income and his struggles. After all, teachers only work 9 months out of the year (as the mindset goes). The average Joe isn't thinking about college loans, and that the 9-month salary must stretch out 12 months. Then you get the argument: Well, they knew that before they started teaching.
Also, many times when teachers salaries are mentioned, school districts (superintendents) usually quote salaries with all the benefits included. When Average Joe talks about his salary, he talks about what he puts in the bank, not all the other benefits (Unempl. Comp., employers share of insurance and FICA, etc. etc.). So, when Average Joe reads these numbers, he's really thinking teachers are making scads of money next to his struggling income.
Dianne
Well, but if the average salary in the area is $30k, then it's not so outrageous for teachers to be making about that. In my county, the median income is well over $70k, and most teachers make less than that even though their salaries would look darned good in many other parts of the country. You're not living in the lap of luxury on a teacher's salary around here, but if we were paying our teachers starting at $20k, no one with any sense would work here.
Best wishes, Ericka
But Average Joe doesn't think a 9-month job demands the same salary. That was my point. *I* don't think it's unreasonable, but there are many who believe otherwise because their thinking is inside out and upside down.
Dianne
Another consideration is how far some teachers have to commute and whether any public transportation is available. In rural areas (no public transportation) it isn't unusual for a teacher to drive 45-60 minutes each way (at full highway speeds) and they live that far away because their spouses commute an equal distance in the opposite direction. Schools know that if an equal position closer to home opens up those teachers will jump ship and pretty much no amount of raise will get them to stay.
Of course commutes are roughly the same length in time around here even though the distances are often much shorter; traffic is a factor here. I still know of many teaching families where one will teach in Canton or S. Akron and the other teaches up along the lake in the Cleveland area. They live someplace in between the two jobs--assuming they can find an affordable place. The odds of finding a closer job over time are much higher here though because of the population density. OTOH, some of the big cities have had massive teacher layoffs over the last three years. The inner-city districts are closing old buildings and cutting budgets; the suburban districts can afford to be pickier about hiring. Some say that locally the highest job security in K-12 teaching is as a substitute since those are needed somewhere every day and you get to be the picky one about where you will work and what classes you will teach.
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Do you have any higher education in teaching "gifted children"? I think the women who run the center my dd attends once a week, who are trained in it would have a better idea of how to "grade" students than someone who teaches piano lessons. Not that you aren't a great teacher, but they have different training than you do, having specialized in gifted education.
The Gifted Center focuses on creativity and hard work. They would never define a child's thought process as mediocre. Their effort might be, but never the way they think.
Adding emotion to playing an instrument takes talent, writing music takes creativity. I think you are confusing the two.
Much like reproducing a chart in embroidery takes talent, designing a chart takes creativity.
In her regular classes, the ones she attends the 4 days a week, she doesn't attend the gifted center does give A-B-C-D-F grades. She gets A's in those classes, and is expected to be able to keep up with her fellow classmates on the work they do while she is at the center. It means that on center days she has a bit more homework than on other days, but she's managing to do it all without complaint.
Just because you don't understand the system the center uses, doesn't mean their way is wrong. It might mean that people with advanced training in dealing with gifted students know more about it than most of us do.
Quantifying a student's ability to play an instrument, if they have done their practice, live up to their talent, etc isn't really the same thing as dealing with these kids. These kids just think differently. Smart kids are not necessarily gifted kids, and some gifted kids aren't making A's in their regular classes.
Caryn (mom to 2 gifted, and one really smart kid! LOL)
That last comment was totally unnecessary to the conversation. You insinuated that grading wasn't possible in the gifted program because creativity was the norm.
That doesn't preclude the notion that one can "grade" creativity. I remember when regular education went through the "Oh, let's not *grade* but let's use ideas such as 'Performs well at level' instead." There may still be districts that use that method in general education. Dianne
Weeeellllll, there are lots of highly skilled and trained GT teachers who do, in fact, use typical letter grades, so I don't really think that the absence of grades is inherently superior to their use in GT education (or anywhere else, for that matter). And, of course, there are plenty of non-GT learning environments where grades are not used. It's purely a matter of the particular pedagogical approach used in each situation.
? Either skill at elite levels take both.
Best wishes, Ericka
You get by in being acutely brainless, accurately.
We're very lucky here, that my daughter has a chance to go into a program that focuses on teaching kids to do more with their brains than become booksmart.
Pushing gifted kids to learn faster isn't really giving them the best possible solution. Sure they can do it, but what do they really get out of it in the long run? A few AP class credits to take to college?
Our school system now insists that any teacher with a gifted kid in their classroom be taught certain techniques to keep challenging them even outside the program. They are also taught techniques on how to help kids with special needs get the most from their school experience too.
We are the lucky ones, so many schools don't have this sort of thing available. Now, if we could just get the schools to stop focusing soooooo hard on the standardized tests!
Caryn
I was comparing your level of education training with someone with a Master's Degree. You don't have a Masters in Education, specializing in GT do you?
They will get progress reports, just not letter grades. Just because you have no experience with this sort of system/program doesn't mean it's not valuable and the kids aren't getting a huge benefit from it.
Teaching kids how to really think...rather than just learn...doesn't the world benefit from kids who've gotten that gift at school?
Caryn
" snipped-for-privacy@aol.com" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
One big reason for giving progress reports instead of grades is once you get an A, there's no incentive for doing better. When you are dealing with gifted children, you often need to give them different reinforcement than the A they're used to getting. They're already at the top of most other people's game -- you need to get them at the top of their own. Progress reports allow you to raise the bar and set higher goals.
K, who got an A in high school physics along with a "works below ability..."
My Mac needs updating so I couldn't reply to the current posts. I decided it was time to start one just for this subject anyway. :-) As background, our school/library branch (next door to each other) are in a rural area, 8 miles from the nearest other "town", but the elementary school itself is part of a larger district. Last October the school board mentioned closing the school as a money saving option for the district. As a courtesy to the community the board meeting that month was held out here in the school gym. The enrollment at the K - 6 school was down to 142 & the school board was asking us for a reason to tell the other (some overcrowded) schools in the district why they were not closing Ruch & bussing the kids to other schools. 300 people showed up at the meeting & the school was not closed - with the condition that the school, PTO and community could increase enrollment and make the school more cost efficient. The following is the second "bridge" letter sent to people interested in helping keep the school open. I am posting it as an example of what a small rural community can do when their small local school is endangered. :-)) Liz from Humbug
The Bridge
An email tool designed to "bridge" the Ruch School news with the Ruch community!
Our Enrollment is UP, UP, UP!! At Ruch School
4 Moved to Ruch from other Medford Schools.18 Moved to Ruch from out of the Medford District
15 Have come to Ruch from being Home Schooled4 Have come to Ruch from Private schools
6 Returned to Ruch from McLoughlin21 New Kindergarten students!
With so much great news and new stuff it was time for another "Bridge" email! Many thanks goes to our great community for stepping up to the plate and making our rural school happen against all the odds. We are a great community! The new Ruch School Enrichment Program is off and running with over 100 kids participating in classes just 3 weeks into our opening Fall session! A big round of applause goes out to all of our community members for your support and bringing all these new exciting opportunities to our wonderful school.
The new "Enrichment Program", is designed for all community kids (Kindergarten through 8th grade) to be able to take enrichment classes run by community volunteers while school is not in session. Typically 3:30 -5:00 p.m. Monday-Thursday. So far we are busting out at the seams in Adventures in Art, Cooking for Health and Fun, Drama, and many more are just beginning...chess, science...spread the word about this great program. Course descriptions are available in the Ruch School office and at the Ruch library. Winter session will be starting up in January with a whole new list of course offerings for all of our kids in the community. If you have a talent and our interested in teaching a class please contact me, Meg Gustafson, and I will mail you a "Course Proposal Form and Guidelines". Thanks to all the community volunteers who have so far made this happen;(names snipped) A big thank you goes to (names snipped) who donated funds to the Ruch Enrichment Program. These funds have been established as a scholarship and catch-all emergency fund for this new and evolving program.
Woodland Nature Trail Project is underway at Ruch School! - by Jim Hutchins (when the land for the school was donated many decades ago it included a grove of firs/pines, etc. under the condition that the trees not ever be cut /logged)
Our wonderful Nature Trail project is moving forward with all of the enthusiastic energy of every student, teacher, and the community at large. Students from kindergarten to 8th grade are bubbling over with their sketches, essays, and wonderful ideas. Teacher's are blending their science curriculum into the Woodland Project. Wonderful community members have stepped forward with offers to help, which includes; bat boxes, benches, trail bark and a variety of other things. I am so excited about being part of this project, and working with these wonderful things.
WANTED Lumber for Woodshop Do you have any lumber you could donate to Ruch Elective Woodshop class? Specifically we are looking for any 2 x6's, 1 x 6's , 1 x4's, in good shape minimum 2 feet long. Also does any have a scroll saw or any tools they would like to donate? Woodshop meets every Wednesday from 2:00 p.m. to 3:15 p.m. in the gym at Ruch School and can always use adult help. Please stop in the Ruch School office and fill out a Volunteer form prior to volunteering. Lumber questions? Contact Gary Gustafson.
Regular PTO Meeting Times All PTO meetings will be held the 2nd Monday of each month at 8:00 a.m. in the Media Center.Parents and community ~ please come and join us. We want and need everyone's input for decision making and fund raising. Our PTO has always been special and we need all of your support to help continue to make it the successful organization that it is.
PTO Officers (names & emails snipped for privacy & space for rctn use)
PTO Fall Festival Saturday, October 22, 2005 4 p.m. - 7 p.m.We have already received some wonderful donations from a lot of businesses for our basket raffle. Plan to attend with your family for an evening of fun!
(Snipped SMART program stuff) WANTED !! Adult Chess Players to help assist with the Chess enrichment class. We had more students than anticipated! Mondays, 3:30-4:55. Please call volunteer instructor Wallace Kaufman at 899-1898 if you can help.
RUCH SCHOOL IS OFF TO A
SUCCESSFUL START !
A Letter From Ed Nicholson, Principal (New - last year one teacher acted as principal for both this shool and the one 8 miles over the hill & down the road)
Ruch School is off and running for the new year. It is exciting to see the planning and dreaming that took place last year now coming to fruition. Many , many people have contributed in making Ruch School the vibrant place that it is. At the present time, we have 193 students. Thirty-nine of them are in the 7th/8th grade class. Other
7th and 8th graders have expressed interest in coming to this class and are on a waiting list. It is apparent that this option has added much to our school. but growth has occurred in many other grades as well. Our K-6 enrollment is 154 compared to 138 when school ended last year. Many opportunities for students have been developed in the form of Enrichment Classes (after-school for all ages of students, taught by community professionals) and electives (during school for 7th and 8th grade students). The Enrichment Programs begin this week. We will have a Holiday program this year. We are in the process of arranging Band, Orchestra, and Chorus for upper grades. Electives such as Ceramics and Woodshop are starting for grades 7 & 8. The expenses for all of these special classes are being paid for through donations and fund-raising.The Ruch PTO had a terrific fund-raiser, "Night in the Valley" last June that is funding our art and music programs this year. Other fund-raisers will be upcoming. We have received some greatly needed and appreciated donations from both individuals and organizations. I would like to take this opportunity to thank each of you. Please remember that donations made to Ruch School or Ruch School PTO are tax deductible.(I would love to stitch "The Big Red Well Read Book" for next year's auction, but I'm not sure it would be appreciated enough to bring in what it should - not to mention all the other projects that seem to keep popping up) :-))
In order to continue to have Ruch School be the vibrant, exciting place it is and to continue all these programs, it will take the continuing support level in both volunteers and donations from the community. Some of our elective programs are in need of materials and funds e.g. woodshop is looking for lumber.
Our community is rich with people that are highly skilled and knowledgeable in many diverse areas that have a willingness to help and spend time on and off campus, with the common goal of enriching our student's education and keeping our school open. We could never have accomplished all that we have without the entire community support that we have received! I am very glad to be a part of Ruch School and look forward to meeting all of you throughout this school year.
Ed Nicholson, Principal
Dianne , i read this with interest, since your educational ideas are so very different than mine.
I never found it easy to reward or grade or define whch part of a student`s work was `creative`. When i felt/understood that it was Original [i.e. students own idea, interpretation,version etc..] i would comment that i found this to be an Original Thought or an original work. I worked hard to explain to my students that it is ok to use others sources for muse, but that they have to be aware of it.
Of course Visual work is a bit different in this manner than playing music from known musical piece. And my students were Trained to become instructors in handcrafts ,fiberarts and art. But i built the courses in such a way that they also could enhance and strengthen their own artistic abilities . As i am still in contact with many of them , It is a great joy to see those who were gifted , now appearing in exhibitions , and also see that they are now educating many young children all over the country , to make better use of their gifts.
Everyone got the same Basic and expanded courses, lessons excercises, Everyone was expected to do their utmost best. Both my Colleague teachers and me , soon noted that certain students, were `better` at certain crafts/art or had a better grasp of theorhetical ideas or had more abilities than others. We encouraged Everyone to seek more help more guidance that will enhance their personal abilities. I gave lists of reading materials, to everyone willing to go this path. I encouraged them , to phone , speak privately whenever needed. A budding artist, is as frail as melting ice or a ball of dust , one wrong attidtude and you can destroy so many things.. Stil one has to teach that Hard work is needed to gain the best from all this gifts one has. Walking this frail line is extremely hard, Grading `creativity ` at this points is almost not fair , because we really don`t know `what ever is cooking boiling` inside that young gifted person. The gifts are there , but so are frights doubts and also sometimes overrating of one own abilities, thus teaching the gifted ones is more about giving a helping hand, when walking through a tunnel , that we have already gone through. We can show the student where the pitfalls are , we can`t help him over them, We can listen to questions , and possible solutions , But grading `creativity`???? Never. Life will grade this, not me nore you. I have seen gifted ones , that never `delivered` much, and less gifted who worked so hard that they reached something. I am just reading an interesting book that deals with similar questions. "Art & Fear , Observations On the Perils [and Rewards] of Artmaking" David Bayles & Ted Orland , Capra Press, 1997 [7th print].
The Debate in the Musical world , between Technical ability to perform a written piece and Emotional performance, is publicly known. In The Rubinstein Piano Competition , here in Israel , we hear those debates everytime a new. Some Musical Reporters follow up the carreers of the winners of former competitions, and try to see wether the more technical performer or the more emotional former winners , made a better or lesser career . Emotional abilities are part of your creativity, but i don`t think it can be measured. When my cchildren were small they and we were subjected to loads of questionaires about `creative abilities. I had great fun filling piles of uncreative , and unimaginative questions. I alos read some of the `researches` that were printed later based on those questionares, that were filled by parents and kids,,,It convinced me that the opnly measure one has is waiting patiently for some years ,,,,, All Young people wether gifted or not are to be treated like baking a cake ,, put in the BEST ingridients, take the time , mix them well .... put in the oven /send to life and pray for the best result to come out. mirjam
Caryn , i think in educating one needs training , anf education , but one needs also a listening heart to the student`s abilities and needs. One needs to forget that one is the teacher and the student a student there comes a moment and times when lessons for some students , become a joint adventure between the instructor and the student. The moments when the instructor `Hears` those abilities the student has and he /she Goes with the student in the student`s special path of needs/abilities. Than like when a baby learns to walk ,the instructor has to let go and see that the student canwalk on his own ,,,, and just be there to catch him when he tires. I don`t know what kind of teacher Dianne is, i only can see from her various writings over the years , how she teaches. You challange her about her academic level of education. Having a higher training , might give each teacher more tools how to work with students. But basicly every teacher and instructor brings his/her personality into the profession as well. From Dianne`s many writings about teaching /and educating /and her social comments about her neigbours. i can see we think differently, about how we teach and educate. My impression is that in this discussion she is speaking from her long experience and her way or working. The teachers you meet now are different people , working with different children under different conditions. why are you so angry about Dianne`s remarks. Had she been a direct teacher of one of your children, that it would have been essential to develope such a high level debate, Now we can all just quietly speak and learn that there are different ways , to teach the gifted children. And maybe use this as a guague to what we do with ours. mirjam
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