LNS in Alabamastan

LOL!

No he can't. You can refuse to answer such calls or hang up on them. There are laws about when and how creditors can contact you. As for his using your phone number, I'm shocked that you haven't taken out a restraining order preventing him from harassing you in this way. I thought you were a legal expert.

It isn't my lucky stars that need thanking. I'd not have been involved with nor married him in the first place (did you ever bother to check with x#1 before marrying him? I would have) and I would certainly not have put up with this kind of shit for as long as you've put up with it if I had the connections you have. Even without those connections, he wouldn't be pulling that crap on me. No way.

I'm sure you have pages of why I'm wrong, but never mind. I'm sorry I said anything. You're clearly determined to be a victim. I hope you get the satisfaction from it that you seem to be looking for.

Elizabeth

Thanks, Ericka. And to further muddy things - in several other languages, the similar term for a group of mixed gender tends to be in the male plural.

I often use "hey, guys" as in "let's settle down" - even at meetings (usually working groups). Or, "gang" or "people" - which I think sounds like a school teacher getting angrier. What has offended me is when someone specifically has said, clearly meaning to be gender specific - "my Guys do...." rather than something which would include females. And as someone suffering the aftermath of an EEO action, I've seen plenty of discriminatory, or insulting, language and action. But, I'm not going to confuse that with innocent, colloquial usage of a term. At least I hope not.

IME the use of Sir or Ma'am definitely is a regional and where/how you were educated. I notice in the south especially that people in a service type job (shop clerk, cashiers, etc) will often call me "Ma'am" -even when I was much younger. I'd often be a bit taken aback and say something to the effect of you don't have to call me ma'am, or I'm not so old, etc. And was regularly told "this is how I was brought up" . In the working for the military world it was pretty interesting, because I don't easily toss "sir" around, while my active duty colleagues were having to use sir, or ma'am to address most everyone. Made for interesting times. But, I do use "sir" as I've found appropriate to someone who deserves that note of respect. In working in the doctor's office, I found that some of the staff who were incapable of learning or pronouncing patient's names most of the time used "sir" or "ma'am" . I prefer to use a name, but I understand the use of these terms as marks of respect as opposed to subservience. I think it's just trying to be polite, and there is certainly plenty of room for that.

Ellice - back to resume & mortgage land with sick husband mucking up my entire week....hard to work when he's moping about - don't know why

Because sick men are total energy sucks. They beg attention even when they don't know they're doing it.

Elizabeth (mines been sick since August and I'm ready to off both of us)

I'm sort of with you. Having had a hyphenated name, and then went to just having 2 middle names with this marriage. Especially as DH asked very nicely about the name change, as in that it would be meaningful for him if I would take his name. After all, we are a family. But, when I was publishing, doing research, I certainly used the hyphenated name. Most of my friends have done the hypehnation, or kept their maiden name as a middle name. One friend gave all the children her maiden name as a middle name, rather than being hyphenated. Similarly, those academics with doctorates - tend to use Professor or Dr - but in social situations use whatever. Interestingly, most in the R&D world -or non-academic -don't use the "Dr" title unless it's a first introduction or some formal work thing. Certainly not socially - unless they're European (for the most part). Interesting comparing with our MD friends, who use "Dr" all the time. I had some fun doing the etiquette research for social invitations for some clients - with combinations of doctorates, JDs, MDs in all mixes of the couples (as in who had what). Very fun to get those done properly.

Anyhow, I figure if you're a family, you're a family - and the name convention becomes more of an issue with children. My South American friends, years ago - had hyphenated names. When they married each dropped their matrynomic to make a new hyphenated name. So it goes.

Personally, as long as no one at work ever refers to me as Mrs. - that's fine. It's been a long time since at work, and the first DH had a job which intersected professionaly with mine - our phone calls could get confused. I'd get a call from someone looking for Dr. P about.... And as the conversation would go on I'd say - ummm - which research area? Which one of us are you looking for - as I've not defended yet so no title (given a crazy advisor and mess with defense/dissertation details). It would be a fifty/fifty thing - sometimes looking for him - some for me - very weird if they then called me "Mrs." - I hate that at work. My pet peeve.

Oh, well - keeps things interesting all our variety of opinions.

Ellice

"ellice" wrote

My two kids have different fathers , and each has their father's family surname. I have my own surname. Yes, it was a bit different, but no one was traumatized by it. The kids went to a small elementary school where the teachers knew they were brother and sister, and the names were not an issue. (We were far from the only blended family around). At the huge high school, some teachers took a while to get it, but in hindsight, the kids said it wasn't so bad, as they escaped the comparisions and expectations that a few teachers put on kids based on their older siblings.

No one seeing me and my now grown up kids would question for a moment that we are a family.

Dawne

Oh dear - poor you.... My DH has been ill often enough to know exactly how you feel.

Cheryl

Sometimes you also have to recognize that it's not the height of achievement, but rather an equal part of the group. And when you're in the truly minority position gender-wise, that's part of being equal. Not expecting different privileges, or address, because of your gender. So, while it seems a bit ignorant, often it's meant well. Especially older generations - it's a bit of an awakening dealing with women doing what they've known as traditionally male jobs, or education.

The thing that is interesting to me, IME, the other female engineer/scientists that I've worked with - we didn't sweat the small stuff. If some guy is a little too conscious that I'm a woman, or makes kind of slightly sexist remarks - like this - marvelling at how well I do with the guys, or as one of the guys, or OTOH, is a bit more polite in the treating me special (like a date), or deferential, or calls me "young lady" - but treats me with all due respect in professional matters, I'm just going to let it slide. There are so many big battles and issues to deal with - I'm not going to sweat some man's minor affectation - calling me dear, or whatever. The key is that in the professional arena - as long as my work is duly regarded, then we would put up with all the little crap. Because, the professional growth, regard, opportunity is what's important, and to some extent you have to know how to play the game, and get along.

OTOH, by contrast, IME, the women doing the more tradtionally mixed or women's jobs - like admin, contracts staff, program assistants (non-technical) etc - would be up in arms at the most slightest perceived insult - usually some totally innocuous remark. I think it's a pick your battle thing - to my colleagues it was much more important to have professional regard, respect and deal with the foibles of a bunch of less socially adept scientists than to constantly be annoyed. Not to say that true bias shouldn't be dealt with - not the case at all. But, we thought our friends in the more traditional positions who weren't in minority kind of situations, and hadn't the same experience as a minority during education, etc - were easily offended - we'd wonder if that went to not having the same kind of skill set work wise - where they were in positions that maybe they felt didn't give them special skills in the eyes of the sci/tech types, or maybe themselves, and didn't really have to battle about being allowed to do their work. Since they hadn't had discrimination battles just getting thru college, grad school, etc.

Anyhow - in a nutshell - without meaning to sound elitist - I tend to think that for the most part, women who have grown, experienced, worked thru situations where they really are the minority - to get to do the work they want do not sweat little issues in favor of being sure the big issues progress (i.e. Anita Hill - I totally understand her dealing with a bunch of sexist crap while she was getting great professional growth - until the sexist crap got to be serious, over the line) while women who don't/haven't experienced that true minority & accompanying discrimination as they go through their education, etc - are much more likely to be upset about the little things. Just IME. Don't all start flaming - I'm not being a snob, this really is something that my colleagues and I would talk about - especially with one of our close friends who was a program analyst and constantly bitching about nonsense while happy to be really well paid to essentially pamper her boss (and not do any real program analysis)

Ellice

I get it. At the same time, my grandmother would scold me if I just walked into a room, said hello and began a conversation. She was quite adamant that everyone should be properly, specifically, and politely addressed. And forget when I would do just a quick "hi" or just launch into conversation. I felt that if I were talking to you, then clearly I recognized that you were there - she felt this was very rude, and we had some real arguments about that. OTOH, my elder cousin (now the Aussie) worked her but good, and would write really ingratiating (lying) letters of all kinds of sap, and be that way when in person - and reaped much in terms of material reward. I just couldn't do it.

Ellice

I think you may have latched on to something there. There were certainly plenty of other slurs around - and I was astounded with having to experience them when I moved to places which had few Jews. Even in university - I had some really strange experiences. So, that may also be why I find some of this to be tempest in a teapot.

Nah - don't make yourself miserable!

Ellice

"ellice" wrote Sometimes you also have to recognize that it's not the height of

Not really disagreeing. I have been in minority work positions for much of my working life, from lawschool on. To turn it a bit, I think in those minority positions, there is more need to be "one of the guys", and not to be perceived as a hostile outsider. That way, when you do have to stand your ground, it is taken more seriously. So, one accepts a certain amount of awkwardness and less than ideal language, and indeed, most of it is not intended as hostility (but I think that stuff can still be addressed, in a friendly way, once one is accepted as a colleague). Some is though, and needs standing up to. The man who said I was one of the guys was trying to say something like "we find it easy to work with you". It was another man who objected, not me. But I appreciated the objection. IMHO, we will have reached true equality when each of us is appreciated for who we are and what we do, not for transcending some stereotype and being really logical "for a woman" or really understanding "for a man".

Dawne

I have just suffered through another one I hate. I bought and paid for a tax software programme - I just finished filling it all out and netfiling etc. but it drove me wild from beginning to end - each page it would start

Sheena, do you have any investment income ?

Sheena, have you made quarterly Federal Tax payments ?

Argggghhh, their gd computer wouldn't know me if it fell over me, why the hell is it programmed to call me Sheena? I don't want it calling me Sheena. I hate it calling me Sheena. I shall NOT buy that software again next year, I shall switch to another!!!! Somewhere there must be a contact address and I will write and tell them why I won't buy their software again. A pox on them ! Bad enough doing taxes but then that !!!!!

I think the main reason for this is that many of the users of such programs are filing joint returns. Mine does the same thing. Is this James income, Gillian's income or both etc etc?

As an ex-professional tax person , I know one generally puts the male of the household first, and the wife second. This is not to be chauvinistic, but helps save confusion if you have several returns in the computer (or on paper as we did in the olden days). If it is a routine it makes it more straightforward, and the preparer is less likely to make an error.

I have used the same software for years....but then I LOVE doing taxes, I just dislike paying them. I E-filed our 2008 last week, and mailed them the $9 we owed. Then I amended the 2006 and 2007 returns and mailed those in. I still have to amend the 2008 in the future, but no big rush on that (unless the Govt runs out of money, and cannot pay the couple of grand they will owe us). Gill

I hate EVERYTHING about taxes !! How could you like them ??

I love the combination of finance, math and law! It is an intellectual challenge for me. When I was working at it for $$s I was one of those extremely "honest" preparers. If Joe told me he had earned a few dollars under the table, by helping a buddy who had a roofing business, for example, I refused to ignore it. I would tell him it is taxable income, he needed to pay all taxes on it, and it was now ON the table as far as I was concerned.

It was also a challenge keeping up with all the stupid little twists and turns the Congress decided should be in the tax code. I get upset when people blame IRS for all the taxes; all they do is make the collection workable, with the appropriate forms, and collect the money for the US. It is the idiotic Congress who tell IRS to do this.

Vent over.

I always get a refund because if I feel this twisted about doing the taxes you can judge how I would feel if I now had to write a cheque out to them !! I find the software great, it just asks the questions and depending what you answer, so it asks more, or goes on to other things.

However, that said, I don't appreciate software calling me Sheena.

However you meant it, this did indeed come across as elitist. It's one of the biggest problems with feminism - that women tend to judge other women harshly.

Elizabeth

As I said, he couldn't be annoying you without your complicity. You wanna blame it on him, that's fine, but you're clearly playing along.

Elizabeth

As I said, he couldn't be annoying you without your complicity. You wanna blame it on him, that's fine, but you're clearly playing along.

Elizabeth

I can play all my incoming messages right from the extension phone, which is just a Panasonic and not at all exotic.