LNS in Alabamastan

Sadly, I hate to agree - even if it is rather sexist. I wonder if the generation that's still in school will be any better - having a greater chance of being raised with more attitude about women's equality? Somehow it's the reverting to little boy thing. I will say, that for the most part DH isn't very demanding or whiny. But, sometimes that's worse - sort of the "it's ok - I don't need medicine, juice, tea, etc" I just can't seem to concentrate on serious things with him rustling about. I only hope that delaying some of this doesn't bite us in the butt.

Although, when I had the last major surgery - he was really good about dealing with me and my limited mobility. Would leave me in the sunroom, with TV, books, cards, stitching, a small cooler with drinks, phone, and wheelchair nearby. Of course, the big issue was me getting to the bathroom...wheelchair didn't make the hallway too well, but. And he'd even try to come home for lunch - when he could. I was very immobile for about 6 weeks, then moving better with crutches - so that was good - but no weight on the leg for about 5 months.

I am so sorry to hear that. I truly hope that you're coping well and have all the help that you need. Long term illness is just so wearing.

Ellice - thanks for the sympathy

Precisely.

Oh, absolutely, I'm sure. I really think this is an individual and partner/spouse decision. Just my sort of logic about the name thing. Here, mostly when you marry, that's your opportunity to change your name without any big deal (going to court). IIRC, we just had to fill out what the married names would be - and we could've changed his to mine, or hyphenated, or left them alone. In our case, the judge who married us (a federal judge, quite high up as in next up would be a supreme court justice) is married to a pediatrician, and we know their son. Son has the judge's name, mom uses her maiden name professionally, married name socially - I think legally her name is like mine with the extra middle. He did ask us to be sure about how we were doing our names. One of our guests came rushing over to tell us "hey, she's my pediatrician" . I hadn't really thought about it, because we'd had a social acquaintanceship, and our correspondence with invitations, and theirs to us was always in the social terms. Interesting - as an aside

- we did get a gorgeous set of candles from the White House (some deal about people with access having the ability to get some stuff), with a lovely, funky silver candle snuffer - with crystals on it. Showed the mix of them - something conservative, something kind of funky.

To each his own, it's kind of interesting how we all have our emotional versus logical thoughts about this. Shakespeare had it right - for the most part.

Ellice

On 2/27/09 1:00 PM, "Dawne Peterson" wrote:

Thanks for saying that so well. You're exactly right, and well, us engineers aren't always as articulate as you legal types ;^)

I will always remember 2 work meeting incidents - the more positive and puzzling - I'd been working for a while, and was running an R&D program, had some promotions - and evidently several of the more junior engineers/scientists thought I was a bit scarey (hard to believe). We were in California, at a big design review meeting - say 40+ guys, big U-shape table was the norm - with the semi-moron from the Corps of Engineers running the meeting procedurally, and the PM from the design contractor up front - us gov types to their left, and the ever-changing troops from the designer opposite (they'd come and go as their stuff was being addressed). The gov types were the scientist crew (a few of us from the labs, with me, tee hee as their supposed troop leader - though we're all equal - the guys in this instance more geeky, emotional, not able to deal politically, the PM from the sponsor, his deputy (who I later became), and a couple of guys from what would be the operating agency - one a true good ole' boy technician, the other an engineer about a couple of years older than me. Anyhow, as we came in one morning - and stopped at the donut/coffee table - the field engineer guy, Juan, came over to me - told me that the best thing about these meetings was "the jelly donuts" (a quote that lived with the tech team for years) and then kissed me hello on the cheek. No big deal - then as I sat - I see a couple of my guys looking at me, finally the engineer who would later be my program deputy says "are you okay - we thought you'd smack him!" "Why?" Then I laughed, haven't you noticed that Sonny (the good ole'boy) almost always gives me a big hug, etc, and calls me "girl" . Thing is, I'd known these guys for several years, and worked a lot of stuff in the test field with the older guy, and have always respected being able to get dirty and learn with guys like that. WRT the younger one - it was just kind of his way - and he'd visited me when I was working in France, and I think after spending a bit of time at that work site was used to seeing me and the French colleagues always having "un petit bizou" (little kiss) on the cheeks as first greeting of the day. It was nice. And I know these men totally and completely respected me professionally. OTOH, some of the other a-holes

- if they so much as dared to wink, try for a grab, or call me honey - totally different story.

- was mortified and apologized a lot as he was way off base. And had to buy many beers when we were all back in the field out west. And my officemate definitely got told to get his act together from the nice guy - as I was having to cover his ass. I don't recommend the tears thing, but when you're female, and that angry, there is a chemical thing which happens, and voila - it's not being emotionally weak - just something.

Hmmm, and why do I want to have a real job again?

Ellice

That is so ucky. Can't you set a switch, preference for how you're addressed? I think ours just asks the questions without any salutation.

ellice

I'm not saying this as a judgment, it is an observation based on experience that I and several female colleqgues discussed. And women, like men, as people, with different experiences, behave differently in similar situations.

I've had a secretary that refused to do my work because she didn't think it was right for women to have the same job as the men. The same woman would then tell me that "she could've done my job if she went to college - she just wasn't so lucky". But my winking, elbow grabbing boss - whatever he needed And I've had support staff that was fabulous to work with, as I respected them, they respected me. The worst discrimination I've ever had at work - from my least educated, unrefined, lying, bigoted, ignorant secretary - who'd serve up sweetly to our branch chief- but was not good to the rest of us, and worst with me.

Personally, while it would be easy to judge other women harshly, I try to treat them with the same standards as any other colleague. I know some who are harsh on the "it was hard for me, I had to be the best, so you should be too" basis. I've gone out of my way in some debates at work about less capable women technical staff - my feeling is that they have as much right to be mediocre as the men. What I won't tolerate with impunity is women who want to use the "I'm a woman" card to get ahead without having the skills, knowledge, effort to go along. And I have seen that, and had a slightly younger than me woman engineer tell me "Yup, if it works for me, then I'm going to do it to get whatever advantage I can". This woman would play the game by speaking ever so sweetly to our bosses' boss, dress just so, do a lot of eyelash batting, and leg crossing in meetings. It was obnoxious. With our supervisor, she'd completely play just like his daughter - as one good Irish Catholic girl to a nice Irish Catholic supervisor.

I'm not going to bend over and say that any behavior is just fine for a woman, because it's not for a man. I will and have done a lot of mentoring through work, and professional societies. A lot. I just have no tolerance or understanding of not trying to do a good job or sabotaging those that do. Sadly, when I'm working in the female world with a lot of the medical stuff

- there is rampant gossip and undermining - it's very clique-y. I don't understand being threatened because another woman does her job well - but that happens.

Ellice

I think you are being somewhat harsh, Elizabeth. There has been a fair amount in our local papers in the past about women being stalked and harassed by exes, and it seems the police are powerless to enforce restraining orders. Also, as to the collection phone calls, I had a friend in that position and it went on night and day until Congress passed a law that they could only call between 8 a.m. and 9 p.m. She even changed her phone number to an unlisted one, and the collectors found it - I think through the DMV or somewhere. She was in a parents' group I ran for a number of years, and finally she had to get a lawyer (also a member of the group) to threaten the collection agency before they stopped.

If only these sociopathic types would put all that energy and creativity into a real job!

Olwyn Mary in New Orleans.

Well......

You could set up your phone to reject private and unidentified numbers. You could have your mother dial *82 before dialing your number which would reveal her number on your caller ID so you can be assured it's her calling. "Private" numbers are almost always from private residences, not businesses. "Unknown" numbers are almost always from businesses, not private residences. At least, that's how it works with the caller ID from my phone company. I would also think, that any business that is large enough to warrant having an 800 number, probably is large enough to not need to outsource proofing/editing/paralegal work to a private individual off the 'net. If they're really looking for you to do work for them, they'll leave a message. And if I were a collector, someone saying "he doesn't live here anymore" certainly wouldn't sway me to not keep calling. I'm fairly certain that's a common response that people give to avoid creditors when they start calling. I'm sure they're sitting on the other end of the phone thinking "yeah, right--he doesn't live here".

I asked myself, if I were in your shoes, just how would I handle this? First, I'd get two phone numbers. Re-assign your current number for business only (it's a tax deduction), that way you don't lose any customers that may have it on file. Get a new number for personal calls, and keep it unpublished. Only give it to your friends, and do not give it to any businesses when you write checks or pay your bills--once it gets reported to the credit bureaus associated with your accounts, it's as good as published. Then, when the business number rings, don't just say hello, give your business a title and answer the phone with it always ("ACME Editing, this is Karen"). It's more professional, anyway. It gives you a LOT more credibility with the erroneous creditor calls that they really do have the wrong number than if you just answer hello and then have to defend that the number isn't his. And don't tell them "he doesn't live here anymore"--just tell them they have the wrong number, this is a place of business. If creditors can in any way prove you have any connection to him, they'll continue to harass you in order to get to him.

Just my thoughts.... Jinx

That is really smart thinking JInx. Hopefully I will never need it but I will store it in my memory bank.

Gillian

Probably a bit, but this isn't just anyone. It's someone who claims to have tons of legal and political connections. I wouldn't be putting up with this crap and I don't see why she does.

But the point is that she got a lawyer and they did stop. Karen has plenty of access to lawyers. AND by using her phone number, he is not only committing harassment, but also fraud. Surely there are ways to stop him that might take only a little bit more energy than she expends complaining about him.

Elizabeth

I think all of that is excellent advice, Jinx.

Elizabeth

Yeah, if only it would be heeded.....

No tolerance for martyr complexes, Jinx

A superb set of suggestions !

Now that was my breakfast laugh lol

But Karen, you've told us all "the facts" more than enough times that I think we have heard enough to judge. And if you don't want us to judge--stop beating us all over the head with your life story!! It's that simple. Keep your private life private. Absolutely no one here gives a s*it about your ex-husband. I guarantee you that.

Jinx

Really?? You really think he does this deliberately JUST to harass you?? Do you really think you were such a fantastic catch that he's so bitter you left him that he never wants you to forget he exists?? Maybe it's just to cheat and steal and get away with it more easily and nothing more than that. Lots of people give out fake phone numbers--it's more often a tactic of evasiveness than a tactic of revenge. But what do I know....

Jinx

This is actually not correct. A friend of mine's X got a judge to agree that the friend could no longer put his son on the bus in the morning. The order arrived on a Friday afternoon and she delivered it to the police on Sunday. I live in a small enough city that the police kindly enough tracked down my friend to tell him that if he showed up at the bus stop on Monday morning and she called, they would have to arrest him. The police may have told you that in 1998, but the reality has changed quite a bit since then (not enough perhaps, but quite a bit).

The police came and told my tenant's X to get off our property when my husband called to report that she was threatening the tenant's girl- friend (who is also my tenant), so that's simply not correct. But that's actually beside the point anyway. We're not talking about getting the police involved because he's threatening you physically (apparently he's not). That's not the kind of restraining order I mean. You can get an order telling him to cease and desist using your information, including your phone number. You can have him charged with fraud for using your information to apply for credit. I could have sworn you said you knew enough to be a lawyer....but you haven't figured out legal ways to get this creep to leave you alone? Hard to fathom.

Elizabeth

Yup. And how much of your time did you just give him now, explaining something to me that I couldn't care less about, about him? You give him time and energy even when he doesn't ask for it.

BTW, your .sig is obnoxiously long.

Elizabeth

I didn't.

Elizabeth