OFF TOPIC funny

Oh, not at all. As a dedicaated Mac person, I lived through many anti-Microsoft domination things. But, to be truthful, exDH was actually a Beta tester for Microsoft for a couple of programs to be used on the Mac...

I have some great "Bill Gates is the Devil" humor somewhere in stash. It's interesting how the market just sometimes forces superior products to end up subsumed into better marketed ones ....

Ellice

They might do better, sell more, if they lowered the price. Everytime I have considered it, I can't convince myself to spend that much more for something that can run less software.

Mac graphics are better, but that's about it. People like to talk about virii etc. - well with a modicum of care there is no need to suffer anything like that.

Three, four years ago there was a window of opportunity if the price had been in line with other computers, but they missed it.

That's the way I view it anyway.

Well, the prices have dropped somewhat. What I've found, and likely what most Mac users will tell you, they replace their machines far less often than those buying less pricey PCs. And the machines come loaded with more software than is typical for others, though the PC world has started providing more. And the software issue has been moot for 3 years - since the switch to Intel chips which will run Windows natively, and faster than a PC (according to consumer reports). Therefore, any software that runs on a Windows based platform can run on a Mac, as well as the Mac software. The software issue honestly for many years has only been germaine to some gaming software, and specialty business software - not any major, commonly used software. For at least 19, 20 years I've been able to do work at home on the Mac, that could be used at work on a PC.

No, the Operating system is more reliable and robust. That's really the big thing. If all you do is read e-mail, and do some word-processing, use excel, no big deal. But, the OS is more robust, is more intuitive for the use - much more plug and play. The system is more straightforward to use, and "do things with" in particular for those that are not computer savvy, or are intimidated in anyway. The other area that they've been in popular use for 20 + years -science apps - the reason they do graphics well is the same ability to process math functions well, quickly. Hence, they're commonly used in science apps and front-ending for super-computers.

The virus thing is true, of course most people should still run an anti-virus software as a precaution, but the firewall capacity inherent to the Macs, and the fact that there hasn't been a large virus problem is worth noting. I'm happy that my machine is set to look for software updates weekly, and does that, and I've never had a virus problem.

You are certainly entitled to your view. I think that you've missed it if you think that Apple has missed the boat, except WRT yourself. That's why their sales have grown forcing Microssoft into spending so much to counter the Mac ad campaign with as close to a copy-cat as they could. I'd rather spend a couple of hundred dollars more and have a machine that lasts and works as it's supposed to than struggle with full of bugs OS, and machines that force me to waste my time dealing with that, a puzzle to find controls. Sure, they are more expensive, but it also requires some looking at the details to be comparing apples to apples, not to lemons. Students, teachers buy thru the education store, which is discounted significantly - and that does help. They also have discounts for govt employees.

It is funny, there is truth in the humor about trying to get a Mac person to switch - it just doesn't happen. Once people switch to a Mac, they almost never switch back to a PC. I've known people to have policies changed at work rather than be permanently switched. Or certainly tell the powers that be "I don't care about IT support - I'll handle it myself" in order to be able to switch. Me, I had a big Silicon Graphics workstation, for science, along with my Mac. The joke at my office was that I had some PC for a paperweight to do one specific thing that the software was specific to Windows. DH has a Dell lap-top, that we regularly refer to as the Dell POS, which replaced his 2 year old lap-top, and will have to be replaced itself. It's slow, constantly having issues with both of them about the drives working properly. But, it was cheap - oh, his is work issue, we'd spend the extra $100 and buy a Macbook. Or a few hundred more and buy a MacBook Pro which is so much faster and capable. Ah, well.

ellice

Having looked at the guts of a Mac, same old...

PCs update too you know

I would love to know where you come by a Mac for a 'couple of hundred more' - not happening here anyway.

That's a comparison of apples to oranges, (no pun intended) the lower range Dells are just that, lower range, priced for people who perhaps just want to do email etc (perhaps some of Karens old people who are coming online) and are not what people who do more buy. I have a Dell laptop an XPS and although I don't do gaming, that sucker is very speedy and does everything accurately, including photo editing etc. I have to ask if you have ever had the use of a good PC ? Even this machine, a desktop which is in the region of 8/9 years old, when XP first came out anyway, is still running like a bird, very fast, huge HD and lots of memory plus I opted to add a second HD and still it came out at half the price of the Mac, I feel well served and certainly do not feel deprived.

I think Mac's have indulged in a bit of cultism and that part has worked !

Yup.

May well be the difference of pricing in Canada versus here.

Absolutely I've had the use of a "good" pc. And have found that by the time you pay to bring most of the PCs up to the actual processing speed, the price difference isn't much. The wasy processor speeds are published/ measured by PCs is different than the standard used for Maxs, which is why it's good to read Consumer Reports. They actually normalize so that the same task speed is actually measured. The guts aren't actually quite the same. And I'd rather have the Mac OS. In the old days, people with PCs, especially older guys at work would carry on about PCs being real computers, and Macs being for idiots - which was kind of funny. My take then was I don't need to type a couple of backslashes in DOS to feel like I'm really doing computing. With my Mac, I can run Unix, or stay in the OS window. Having worked with really high end workstations, like the Silicon Graphics and Sun machines, as well as PCs. FWIW, DH's Dell is actually pretty top of the line, his prior one was the top of the line. They still aren't the same. But, there are different markets. What's interesting is that Windows was written to emulate the Mac OS, which it does, but more bulkily. Similarly, a lot of the software which has been available for PCs - like Photo editing, graphics, even the Powerpoint version which took over Persuasion - came from the Max world and were finally able to be modified to work with Windows.

IIRC, about 1989 - I actually designed and installed at work the first integrated Max & PC LAN. It was awesome - we had standard PCs (from IBM), some really high-end ones, Macs with displays that could rotate 90 degrees for the secretarial staff, and 2 big Mac workstations with 23" monitors, and a couple of standard Macs, plus a lovely little guy that was our group server. Everyone got what they wanted, and the PCs were mostly with the older guys who just did e-mail, wrote a little, and ran some excel - the boss got a Mac, and the secretaries could do the correspondence, presentations, clear up the papers, etc on the Macs which were much more intuitive for them.

It sounds like you've been lucky with your PC. I don't know anyone else still running a PC older than a few years (4 or so) happily. Or claiming it's really fast. But that also has to do with our lack of patience, and expectations of speed.

I don't think I would call it cultism. More like happy users who don't switch. Clearly the advertising campaigns have played to the quirky, you don't have to be part of the mainstream blind masses. OTOH, the advertising campaigns now for HP and Windows have clearly tried to emulate that. There are people who similarly won't switch their car type, or their hockey skates, and follow those. Heck, we probably know people completely dedicated to some particular brand of floss - is that a DMC or Anchor cult? Heck, people are even dedicated to what type of golf club they use, what kind of tennis racket, what breed of horse/dog they prefer, what type of saddle/boots, etc.

Honestly, I think people should have the things that suit their needs in all aspects - financial and performance. I just get tired of hearing the old saw about "software not being available" as that is a load of crap. For my part, in 24+ years of Macs the only problem I've ever, ever had was because some Microsoft guy in tech support (in Toronto - not Asian) told me to do something that was completely wrong, and caused a partial fatal error - locking up one part of my older Mac. Which was then 7 years old and working just fine - but this forced it to only be able to run the older system (more like a PC) and the cost to replace the board wasn't worthwhile.

I understand that PCs are cheaper. OTOH, for some folks I know that really do struggle with computer stuff, even finding set-up daunting - if they can afford the extra $$, which here really is evidently not as great as where you are - then I'd seriously recommend an iMac. It's so easy to set-up, comes with software to do most of what you want (calendars, e-mail, photo-editing, word processing, net browsing, web-cam & mic), good supports, and if you have an old machine/hard drive, the Mac stores will transfer your data onto the new machine at no cost. Anyhow, it's quite straightforward for those that are feeling uneasy or confused. You're a smart, capable person so that is clearly not your situation. But how many people do we know that aren't WRT computer stuff?

Ellice