OT: Amonia's benefits?

I didn't think ammonia killed germs or disinfected anything. I just thought it was a good cleaning agent. I thought bleach kills germs.

Cindy

Okay, so ammonia is a cleaning agent. What's the definition of a cleaning agent? If it doesn't kill anything except my nostril mucus membranes, why is it included in so many commercial cleaners? What use is it?

I am not trying to back you in a corner Cindy, just asking rhetoricals.

Used it to remove marks from my school uniform, many, many years ago - so presumably its a grease solvent.

Bleach kills germs, but is only good as a cleaning agent on white things! Soap is a cleaning agent but doesn't kill germs.

This germ killing has got a bit out of hand so children aren't building up a natural immunity as everything they touch is sterilised.

I have to agree there. Too much germ killing anymore and it sure isn't doing our kids any favours. They seem to catch more colds and come down with worse sicknesses than we did as kids.

I grew up on a farm. I played in the pig pen. I licked the salt licks along with the cows. I drank out of the watering trough. I tromped into the slough's and mudholes and made mudpies with cowpies and then what did I do? I would wander over to the saskatoon or raspberry bushes and eat my fill! Did I disinfect my hands between these activities? umm... NOT! Who had time? LOL I was a kid. I had an immune system.

I tend not to buy much of the antibacterial stuff if I can help it. I grew up on cleaners such as spic'n'span and mr clean and bleach and ammonia WITHOUT the antibacterial agents included and guess what? I'm still kicking and fighting!

~KK in BC~ who now YES would wash her hands after playing in cowpies and mudholes before making a meal or quilting but maybe not to just pick saskatoons and raspberries fresh off the bush? hmm........ LOL

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- I haven't outgrown the need to play with blocks.

I use an anti-bacterial hand-wash, should clean and vacuum the house more often than I do but I hate housework, which is why I have a dishwasher.

Four and a half thousand years ago in southern France early caveman spent about 25-30 hours a week working to clothe and feed his family. The rest of the time he drew on the walls of his cave and banged on hollow logs to make music.

Today we slave full time to keep our "caves" clean with the aid of every conceivable modern appliance and cleaning agent. Where is the progress???

The sign in my sewing room says - "You can draw pictures in my dust - but please don't write in it." In a hundred years no-one will know if you dusted today, but they will treasure your quilt (even if it is "germ laden").

My kitchen and bathroom are cleaned regularly with a commercial product made from orange peel - kills most germs, biodegradable and smells nice. The rest is subject to sporadic attacks. I figure when the "dust-bunnies" in the corners start to walk around the room it's time to remove them.

Ahhhh - the good old days!! When I was a kid we lived without electricity, indoor plumbing or running water. I've washed clothes with homemade lye soap on a scrub board after boiling them in a big pot. We had a smoke house where we hung a butchered pig and a beef every fall. I hauled water from a spring for all our needs. We heated with wood and looked for shade and a cool breeze when it was hot. We had an old dry cell radio that we only turned on as a treat so we wouldn't "use up" the battery. Good old days my a**!! Give me a microwave and indoor plumbing anyday. I love my dyson vacuum and my Hoover rug shampooer. You can have the good old days!! I have to take medication to suppress my immune system and it makes me vulnerable to every *bug* that comes down the pike. I have to avoid people and do a lot of hand washing and I adore antiseptic/antibacterial anything. If it wasn't for products like this I would have no life at all.

Hey, don't get me wrong! I'm not suggesting we move back to the caves. I have a deep and abiding affection for hot-and-cold running, and the first thing I checked in any prospective house as I moved all round the country was the water pressure.

I love my microwave for making hot choc drink at night, I dread the thought of life without the dishwasher, and my vac is one of the most powerful on the market. I was simply suggesting - obviously in an obscure and misunderstood way - that it is not normally necessary for the general population to attempt to achieve OR streile standards day-to-day on every surface in their homes!

I have more than my share of allergies too (one of them is pollen, and on the edge of a wheat/canola growing area that ain't funny three months of the year!). And I am getting sick from all the antibiotics I have to swallow all the time for other reasons. But I will not make myself a slave to scrubbing and mopping with chemical cleaners that have "interesting" ingredients just because an advertising campaign tells me that I should be able to see my face reflected in my kitchen floor. One of the reasons I am "not well" now is the unintended side-effects of medical drug treatments - I don't need any more from cleaners. Happily I do not have to deal with your immune problems, and for those you truly have my sympathies.

Anyway, I'd rather quilt than clean. And since this now impacts no-one but me I will continue to clean my kitchen and bathroom regularly with the "friendliest" cleaners I can find, and deal with the rest only when I feel like it, or when the cats start to play with the dust bunnies in front of visitors. That would be embarrassing.

DNB CWM

electricity,

Amen. I'm more than a little suspicious that the rise in all sorts of auto-immune problems is at least partly due to all the chemicals we irritate our immune systems with.

I can't use anything anymore. I'm hoping allergy shots plus lots of exercise out in the fresh air will enable me to tolerate the chemicals other people slather all over their bodies, and I have actually improved, but currently, I'm still stuck with avoiding most people like the plague. As for household cleaners, I use unscented organic dish soap and vinegar for about 95% of my cleaning. For really greasy messes (like the stove), I'll make up my own ammonia solution, to heck with all those fragranced products you get at the store. It's cheaper to make your own anyway -- all you need is a spray bottle (never use it for anything else!), water, straight ammonia, and maybe some dish soap.

I have a friend who pours a little ammonia in when she prewashes quilt fabric; she says it gets everything out and softens it right up.

True story: my human anatomy professor in college told the class about a student of his not too many years back. She was a perfectly healthy young woman in her late teens, just starting college. As the semester progressed, she became more and more crippled up and ill, to the point where by the end of the semester, she could hardly walk. Her doctor was at a loss to explain or treat it. Well, in the end, she had to move back home because she couldn't take care of herself. And she promptly began to get better. It turned out, after concerned parties did some research, that her first apartment when she left home had been bug-bombed before she moved in, and the residue left behind irritated her immune system into attacking her own body.

A cautionary tale, to be sure.

I had all the symptoms of fibromyalgia until I stopped using all fragranced products. And I do mean all. Now I have no symptoms of it at all. When I meet people with fibro, I always suggest they try going a couple months without using perfume and see if they feel any better. What have they got to lose? I mean really, what have they got to lose? But so far, nobody I've suggested that to has been willing to try it. Beats me why not, especially considering the price they pay in pain, fatigue and discomfort to smell "good."

I'm taking Allegra -- one of the new non-drowsy allergy meds -- and hoping I dodge the bullet where side effects are concerned.

I have to keep the showerbath clean because I'm allergic enough to mildew that I sneeze my head off in the shower if I don't. But I use vinegar, mostly. The smell of vinegar killing mildew isn't exactly pleasant, but it doesn't make me ill the way cleaners do. If there's any bath scum that doesn't come off easily with elbow grease, sprinkling with baking soda and then spritzing with vinegar will take it right off (scrubbing bubbles!). And you should see the way it makes the faucets shine. Vinegar is also a great streak-free glass cleaner.

There are all SORTS of ways to get around using commercial cleaning products. And it's cheaper, too.

Okay, so what kinds of things do y'all use for laundry?? I have dye-free/scent-free detergent, but the sheets, even after thorugh cleaning and drying, end up with a kind of musty, stale odor to them. I like clean smelling sheets, but like some of us here, can't handle the overly strong fragrances. As for houselhold cleaners, the only things i can tolerate with a scent are ones with true lemon or orange as their fragrance. Anything else and it's instant migraine/leave-me-alone-oin the-dark/can't-function-at-all time

Larisa, wanting to get better things for the family as opposed to chemical-this and chemical-that....and hoping this will help get some things straightened out with regards to DS and his ADHD and DD and her devlopmental issues (yes, we are totally changing our diet as well.....going all-natural, as little chemicals/preservatives, etc as we possibly can)

I have been told by several doctors that a lot of the immune disorders are a side effect of chicken pox. Apparently something lies dormant until adulthood and then rears it's ugly head causing the immune system to misread healthy tissue as disease. I don't really care what causes it - I just wish it had never happened to me. Have you taken the shots to build up your immunity to those things you are allergic to??? Or is that too old school nowdays?

The problem with that theory is that I didn't get chicken pox until I was 31 years old when one of my sons brought it home. It went through all of us except DH, who'd had it as a child (he had the lucky chore of taking care of four sickies). DH, on the other hand, has a mild allergy to dust mites (who doesn't?) and that's it.

And no, allergy shots are definitely not old school yet. I and one of my sons are getting them. It's too early to tell if they're helping, but neither of us has had a bad reaction. Yet. Well, I had a strong reaction once when I was silly enough to exercise on a shot day (uh, I guess the doc was right about that....). But other than that, no problems.

And exercise, I'm sure you know, strengthens the immune system if you're able to exercise. I realize that not everybody can, but one of the reasons I've been such a bike fanatic this summer has been to boost my immune system. With everything else, it's hard to tell what's working and how much, but I've definitely had fewer problems with the seasonal allergies this year (you know, ragweed, grass, tree pollen, that stuff that I've been allergic to since the dawn of time). Dunno about the chemical sensitivies since I'm not risking voluntary exposure yet.

Have you ever considered using an air purifier in your home to reduce your exposure to the allergens that are bothering you? I know I have been helped tremendously by being able to spend at least my sleeping hours in my house where the air is being purified. My body seems to better cope with the junk that bombards it when I'm away.

the black rose wrote:

I use the same scent free detergents too. Try adding a little 20 Mule Team Borax to the wash when you do the sheets. That stuff does wonders for odors and leaves no fragrance at all. It will even remove moth ball odor. Just follow the directions on the box.

Another possibility is to put white vinegar into your rinse water instead of fabric softener. But I haven't tried that myself yet. Debra in VA See my quilts at