OT: House crap and life

OK...a month or so ago, we had high winds and lost several shingles off our roof - which revealed the fact that there wasn't even felt paper under the shingles, just plywood. Well, one thing led to another and we ended up where we are now. I called the previous owner to find out who had done the roof, and he snapped at me that there didn'[t need to be any felt paper under the shingles....MAJOR BELLS AND WARNINGS went off.

I called the office of buildings and permits and discovered that the previous owner had self contracted to have the roof done, that the 2nd story (added in 2000/2001) had never had a final inspection, that the garage (added in 2003) had never had a framing inspection or anything else, other than the footers looked at. SO......we engaged the services of an attorney and have been working on this for about 3 weeks now.

Here is what we learned yesterday thanks to a courtesy visit from the county inspector:

The upstairs bathroom is basically illegal because they never applied for a plumbing permit and never had any of the work inspected. The outlet in the illegal bathroom is the incorrect type and needs to be replaced The bedrooms are all supposed to have smoke detectors in them The wiring from the main house into the garage is shoddily done and improperly connected (loosely wrapped electrical tape, no caps twisted on the ends of the wires) The garage needs to have sheetrock removed (we installed it because we had assumed that the inspections had been done) The framing needs to be inspected for use of proper materials and proper construction of the door headers - problem with this is that the siding and flashing has already been installed around the main garage door, and would have to be removed in order for the inspectors to see it In order for the 2nd story to pass inspection, we would have to sheetrock the wall shared in common by the house and the garage as well as the ceiling of the garage (effetively making them separate units in case of fire) Any stairs that we put in the garage (currently using an extension ladder to get to the bonus room when we have to) have to be fire rated...we were thinking of just a drop down set, only to be used as an additional fire escape route)

So......in reading the house contract, the previous owner definitely violated the law, willfully and knowingly withheld information that would have affected the sale of the house, and basically committed fraud in the misrepresentation of material fact. Our attorney wants to file paperwork by June 26th, asking for a court date of August 21st to give us time to get estimates and to gather all receipts together.

Can we say "Major stress this week??" All this is hitting at the same time DNiece is getting ready to move in (will be here Sunday evening if things go well), I'm trying to get the house cleaned up, doing summer school with the children, trying to get things ready for a trip to WIlliamsburg, a later trip to WVa to go camping/fishing/horesback riding, DH wants to spend a weekend in DC going to the SMithsonian (promised DS a visit to the AIr and Space Museum), Mother is driving me insane because she wants to do an hour-by-hour itinerary for the Williamsburg trip, my grandfather (Mother's dad) is in the VA hospital and may lose his legs (diabetic who doesn't take care of himself) - nobody knows how long he has really been there because none of the children were notified when he was first moved there...nobody knows exactly what is going on with him because they can't get the full story from the doctors.....oh, and to get DNiece, DH has to drive 12 hours 1 way, stay the night and drive 12 hours back....BIL (NOT dear right now) refuses to meet DH anywhere along the way, and SIL let me know that it was because BIL wanted the entire family to come down so that we could all spend time with FIL...who is doing better, does NOT have cancer anymore, and has not bothered returning our calls......ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, I'm not getting anything done really. I might take down a couple pieces of the sheetrock that need to be removed, vacuum the main level of the house, straighten the sewing room (which is where DN will be staying), scrub down the bathrooms, get laundry finished for the road trip to Williamsburg, and then just collapse from exhaustion (oh, somewhere in there I will be doing schoolwork with the children and our daily reading time).

I think there will be a quilt in this somewhere, but I just can't even begin to design or play with fabric or anything......

Larisa, off to do................something

Reply to
larisavann
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Sure am sorry you are going through all this. Good luck with your attorney and getting things straightened out on your house. Barbara in SC

Reply to
Bobbie Sews More

That is so crummy. A house is a major investment, and there should be things in place that prevent you from buying unaware. Sounds like some safety issues, too. I hope your attorney finds some recourse for you.I remember the first time we bought a house. I felt like lambs being led to the slaughter.

Sherry

Reply to
Sherry

Oy! Sounds like you are going to be spending some time in court. That seller must be some kind of fool! That level of illegal on that big an investment tends to lead to felony charges and stuff. Especially if Virginia has laws that say a house has to be inspected before it is sold (is there anyplace that does not?) he is going to be in a world of hurt before this is done. Keep your recipts and records of how much time you spend on stuff. He is likely going to have to pay and pay some more before this is done.

NightMist

Reply to
NightMist

Sending positive thoughts for assistance on your house mess. Nobody should have to go through that - or all the rest that's hit you lately. Hopefully, things will end on a positive note on all accounts. .....maybe you need a fabric-fondling day! Our best is being sent your way. ME-Judy

"off kilter snipped-for-privacy@somwherequiet.net" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

Reply to
ME-Judy

This part (quoted below) is what puzzled me. Larissa, did you have a home inspection done prior to closing? It is not required in Massachusetts but if one is done (and almost everyone does get one), it is the responsibility of the buyer to arrange and pay. What is the practice in Virginia?

Rita L.

NightMist wrote:

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Reply to
Rita in MA

Down here you can get pre-purchase inspections done, where they check everything out, before you sign away your life. Costs abou 100 bucks but well worth it. Sounds like one of these could have saved a lot of heartache.

Reply to
Sharon Harper

Wow... need to buy shares in Extra Strength Tylenol??

We bought our house without a formal inspection so I know we took a big risk when we did so, but so far we have not been met with anything we didn't expect for a house of the age ours is. I think I would be beside myself in your situation. Good luck to you and hope it all works out in the end.

~KK in BC~

"off kilter snipped-for-privacy@somwherequiet.net" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... : OK...a month or so ago, we had high winds and lost several shingles : off our roof - which revealed the fact that there wasn't even felt : paper under the shingles, just plywood. Well, one thing led to : another and we ended up where we are now. I called the previous owner : to find out who had done the roof, and he snapped at me that there : didn'[t need to be any felt paper under the shingles....MAJOR BELLS : AND WARNINGS went off. : : I called the office of buildings and permits and discovered that the : previous owner had self contracted to have the roof done, that the 2nd : story (added in 2000/2001) had never had a final inspection, that the : garage (added in 2003) had never had a framing inspection or anything : else, other than the footers looked at. SO......we engaged the : services of an attorney and have been working on this for about 3 : weeks now. : : Here is what we learned yesterday thanks to a courtesy visit from the : county inspector: : : The upstairs bathroom is basically illegal because they never applied : for a plumbing permit and never had any of the work inspected. : The outlet in the illegal bathroom is the incorrect type and needs to : be replaced : The bedrooms are all supposed to have smoke detectors in them : The wiring from the main house into the garage is shoddily done and : improperly connected (loosely wrapped electrical tape, no caps twisted : on the ends of the wires) : The garage needs to have sheetrock removed (we installed it because we : had assumed that the inspections had been done) : The framing needs to be inspected for use of proper materials and : proper construction of the door headers - problem with this is that : the siding and flashing has already been installed around the main : garage door, and would have to be removed in order for the inspectors : to see it : In order for the 2nd story to pass inspection, we would have to : sheetrock the wall shared in common by the house and the garage as : well as the ceiling of the garage (effetively making them separate : units in case of fire) : Any stairs that we put in the garage (currently using an extension : ladder to get to the bonus room when we have to) have to be fire : rated...we were thinking of just a drop down set, only to be used as : an additional fire escape route) : : So......in reading the house contract, the previous owner definitely : violated the law, willfully and knowingly withheld information that : would have affected the sale of the house, and basically committed : fraud in the misrepresentation of material fact. Our attorney wants : to file paperwork by June 26th, asking for a court date of August 21st : to give us time to get estimates and to gather all receipts together. : : Can we say "Major stress this week??" All this is hitting at the same : time DNiece is getting ready to move in (will be here Sunday evening : if things go well), I'm trying to get the house cleaned up, doing : summer school with the children, trying to get things ready for a trip : to WIlliamsburg, a later trip to WVa to go camping/fishing/horesback : riding, DH wants to spend a weekend in DC going to the SMithsonian : (promised DS a visit to the AIr and Space Museum), Mother is driving : me insane because she wants to do an hour-by-hour itinerary for the : Williamsburg trip, my grandfather (Mother's dad) is in the VA hospital : and may lose his legs (diabetic who doesn't take care of himself) - : nobody knows how long he has really been there because none of the : children were notified when he was first moved there...nobody knows : exactly what is going on with him because they can't get the full : story from the doctors.....oh, and to get DNiece, DH has to drive 12 : hours 1 way, stay the night and drive 12 hours back....BIL (NOT dear : right now) refuses to meet DH anywhere along the way, and SIL let me : know that it was because BIL wanted the entire family to come down so : that we could all spend time with FIL...who is doing better, does NOT : have cancer anymore, and has not bothered returning our : calls......ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! : : So, I'm not getting anything done really. I might take down a couple : pieces of the sheetrock that need to be removed, vacuum the main level : of the house, straighten the sewing room (which is where DN will be : staying), scrub down the bathrooms, get laundry finished for the road : trip to Williamsburg, and then just collapse from exhaustion (oh, : somewhere in there I will be doing schoolwork with the children and : our daily reading time). : : I think there will be a quilt in this somewhere, but I just can't even : begin to design or play with fabric or anything...... : : Larisa, off to do................something :

Reply to
~KK in BC~

they do that here too. More like several hundred $$ though. The thing here in CA is that there is no obligation by inspector to know what he is doing. No regulations at all 4 years ago when we last used one. They aren't responsible for what they can't see. There are disclosure laws that should cover you but if you have a guy that has done a lot of DIY work he probably doesn't know he has done things so bad. If you have someone that is a pro (my dad and brothers are contractors) they can walk through a place and tell what has been done by diy yokels. Often we see things in a house and dismiss them because we like the house or neighborhood or whatever. Watching for red flags can be tough once you sort of are emotionally attached to the idea of a certain house. How many of these things would your realtor have missed I wonder? A firewall is pretty basic stuff IMO. Hope things work out for you larissa. What a mess. Taria

Shar> Down here you can get pre-purchase inspections done, where they check

Reply to
Taria

We had a home inspection done, which is another pisser...the inspector didn't check to see if the permits had all been taken care of .

Had an email from the attorney and she has researched the assets of the previous owner, enough to know that his assets are sparse, so, as she reminded us, getting a judgement against him is one thing, getting him to pay is another. .

I contacted the company that did the roof repair and will be calling another company or more to see how fast they can get here to give us an estimate on the work that is required to get the house to pass inspection. If it is over $15K, it won't be district court, but circuit court. DH wants it to be on record that the previous owner has committed fraud, knowing full well that we will have to pay (with or without going to court) to get the work done, but keeping the option that we can have his wages garnished to pay whatever the judgement against him is (if there is one).

In the interim, I haven't gotten any sewing of any kind finished...not until this morning when I was determined to finish a knit shirt for DNiece. DH and I are watching "Pirate Master" and then I will be working on getting the rest of the sewing room straightened out before DN gets here on Sunday. And this weekend, I will be installing the smoke detectors, testing the breakers in the upstairs and marking them to see which goes to what, and once that is done, I will be installing the correct outlet in the illegal bathroom. I'm still not sure what will happen with regards to the bathroom since they never got the permit to even install it.

So, that's today's update, and really not anything else I can do right now, but chill out and watch the show, then try to get some work done.

Larisa

Reply to
larisavann

We "KNEW" there had been a lot of neglect before we purchased this place......we had a 'where is as is" clause put in our contract. We would rather have it corrected 'our way' than have someone that didn't know how try to do it to close the sale. Yes, it took longer and much more $$ than 'rough estimates' that we had from contractors but now it feels more like OUR home... Now to get the fence done. Got the 2nd permit today. YAY!! We are almost there. Butterfly Studio has a coupla more pixs to put up (I got a stud finder with laser for Mother's Day cause *I* asked for it : ) Now to find something along that line for DH for Father's Day Hehehehehheee. )

Larisa, I hope it's worth it in the long run for you and the house does feel like home for you when all is said and done. It'll be a LONG haul but so worth it IF you like the area you are in and the backbone of the house.

Reply to
Butterflywings

Howdy!

It's often up to the buyer to have the house inspected. (I wouldn't move without an extensive inspection/investigation.) Once the contracts are signed there is (often) limited liability reflecting back to the seller. Caveat emptor still applies.

Good luck, Larisa!

R/Sandy--I'd rather be quilt>

Reply to
Sandy Ellison

I have a couple friends who are moving and the inspection stuff is getting a bit out of hand. The buyers are demanding cosmetic repairs that were obvious when they made the offer. They are demanding things like old faucets be replaced, etc. I feel the inspector should be looking at safety and structural issues that might not be apparent to the average buyer who isn't in the construction business. But some of the other stuff I'm hearing is really petty. If the price reflects the fact the carpet needs to be replaced or the faucets are aged, then it should up to the buyer to take care of it.

Reply to
KJ

It sounds to me (and I could be wrong...) like Larisa is more concerned about the inspections that weren't done on the upgrades and additions the former owner made to the house. These are much different than a home inspection for someone looking to buy a home. He would have had to have a permit and an inspector to come out and sign off on it to make it legal. While it's true that the buyer is supposed to have an inspector come in, it's usually to verify what has already been disclosed by the seller. I personally would always have one done, anyway. That doesn't make it ok for the previous owner to have made so many shortcuts and then conveniently forgotten to have them signed off. I know that in this state, you are required by law at the time of negotiation of a sale to reveal anything that is substandard or needs repair in a home, especially if it's structural. Larisa's attorney seems to be spot on and I wish her every luck in having this situation rectified quickly and smoothly.

Jenn in Tacoma

Reply to
Jenn/Jalynne

I agree. Larisa's predicament is serious and maddening. I was just musing about how the role of these home inspectors before a sale has taken the whole situation to a new level. There is no excuse for the previous owner of Larissa's home. He should be held accountable and needs to pay for the necessary repairs to make everything up to code and legal....and some extra for punitive damages. But you can't get blood from a turnip as the saying goes....so I hope he has enough resources to take care of the damage he's done.

Reply to
KJ

In New York now you are required to reveal any known defects or (AND THIS IS THE KICKER) the buyer can decline to, but has to pay the seller a sum of money. I can't recall what it is, but it is rediculously small - like $500 maybe. All attorneys are advising their clients to pay the money.

L>DH wants it to be on record that the previous owner

Reply to
WitchyStitcher
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Reply to
Taria

When I sold my last house- only 3 yrs. old and custom built for me with love by my former employers- the buyer's inspector had to work very hard to find anything wrong... to justify his fees. Little things like the staircase risers- two were 1/8 in. taller than the other risers- he said you could trip on those steps since they were 'higher'. And the end of the staircase hand rail was simply cut at an angle- he said a pants pocket could catch on it and make you fall. And one bedroom door didn't always 'catch' when the door was closed- don't remember how that was supposed to be a danger to anybody. I had the smoke alarms installed in the hall near each bedroom door- my thinking is that I wanted to have them sound off before the smoke reached a person sleeping in the bedroom- but he didn't like that idea. Sheesh!

Around here, if you are outside the city limits there are NO building codes and no inspections at each step like within the city. You can build any ol' which-a-way and nobody cares..... except the next owner/buyer. There are some real doozies out there that I wouldn't even want to step into least of all live in those houses.

I will have this house inspected before I put it up for sale. I don't want any surprises. I hope it's all as petty as the last house...

Best of luck in getting things sorted out, Larisa. What a rotten mess to have to deal with all this. And after you've worked so hard to make the house 'yours' and get it all fixed up to suit you and your family. grrrrrr!!!

Leslie & The Furbabies in MO. "off kilter snipped-for-privacy@somwherequiet.net" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

Reply to
Leslie & The Furbabies in MO.

We have recently bought a house in Scotland that had building work / extensions done on it and part of the work the lawyer does before you sign on the dotted line is to make sure that it's all legal and conforms to standards. We had a full structural survey done as well which I think cost about £600.

It means that it takes longer from agreeing to buy the house to actually moving in, but saves all this heartache in the long run.

I really hope you get it all sorted out soon.

Morag

Reply to
Morag in Scotland

What I was meaning was that before it is sold a house has to have the requisite inspections for code and fire violations. Either new ones or records of the most recent ones depending on how long ago the last one was done. Not the buyer bringing in a paid inspector, but the seller having the county or city fellas in so he can legally sell the place. You can buy a house that is not up to code, but there are rules about that. The inspection records are part of the deal, and the sale isn't legal without them. Cuts down on the number of cases that go to court under the money pit laws. It makes enough sense that I rather assumed it was kind of a universal thing. Guess not.

NightMist

Reply to
NightMist

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