well my sm is back, but it's not fixed. sigh

Good luck Musicmaker! I bet it doesn't say any of that in the manual. Ugh! . In message , Musicmaker writes

Wow, hot great its that!!! Keeping my fingers crossed for you that it stays 'fixed'!!!

-Irene

as promised, I'm checking in to let you know how it went. It's skipping AND the top thread is breaking. I don't have time (imagine that!) to call them today, nor do I have the emotional resources to. Will call them tomorrow.

Musicmaker

Thanks for prayers, thoughts and hugs.

I stumped the Baby lock educator - this beast is going back to the dealer then back to baby lock with a letter demanding politely that they test this machine with a VARIETY OF THREADS IN BOTH BOBBIN AND TOP, free motion.

Musicmaker

I would think a total replacement is in order at this point.

I certainly agree. NO MORE TESTING. They need to send you a new machine. They had their chance to test it and fix it once. You have had this machine (to use) since last Christmas and have yet to be able quilt a quilt on it. That is way beyond the call of duty.

Karen, Queen of Squishies

yup, i agree with both of you. i'd think that new machine should be hand delivered in time for this christmas as well. along with lots of new thread, bobbins, needles and some new fabrics and a bottle of bubbly and some excellent chocolate just to take the edge off the whole incident. you've been way way more patient than should ever be necessary. i do hope they make a quick decision with no more namby pamby'n around. hugz, j.

"Karen, Queen of Squishies" wrote... I certainly agree. NO MORE TESTING. They need to send you a new machine. They had their chance to test it and fix it once. You have had this machine (to use) since last Christmas and have yet to be able quilt a quilt on it. That is way beyond the call of duty.

What do you think of this letter, that will accompany my machine to the dealer, with a copy sent to the President of Baby Lock:

In November 07 I purchased a Quest at the Chicago quilt show from Fabricsetc2. It was shipped in time for Christmas when my husband wrapped it and I waited to open it. I used it for a few months with varying degrees of success but reached a point where everything I did either caused skipped stitches or broken top threads, so in frustration I put it away and within a week or so called the dealer in Elmhurst, 3.5 hrs away from me with my problems. They agreed to have me ship it to them to look at. Mary called me and said that they=92d cleaned it up and adjusted the timing and that it was working fine. Because of their distance from me, I had to arrange for a day that I could spare and drove up with the quilt that was put on hold to do some machine free motion quilting in the store and get pointers. I did, and Mary taught me a few things I didn=92t know, and the quest seemed to be working fine. Brought it home and when I got it out of the box I needed to do some regular sewing =96 just simple right sides together attaching 2 pieces of binding to each other. The top thread looped horribly on the underside right out of the box, and I had to tighten the top tension to maximum to get rid of the loops. Even then, I got occasional loops. I called Mary and essentially was told that there was nothing she could do since they=92d already done everything they could do. Great.

By this time I had the distinct impression that all this was my fault and that, even though I=92ve free motion quilted on my little, mechanical Bernina for years without trouble, I=92d suddenly become a free motion idiot. Obviously, since I was the one who couldn=92t use the machine, I was the problem. When I bought this machine, I thought I=92d be upgrading to a machine that would be able to do more and handle bigger quilts than my Bernie.

Since I=92d spent so much $$, though, I couldn=92t just drop it. I took it to Stitch and Sew in Arthur IL, a small town only about 45 minutes from home. They promised to take a look and call me back, which they did. By now it was September. They didn=92t have a problem with it, so I brought in the fused art quilt I was having the most recent free motion trouble with and in their store I couldn=92t sew more than an inch without a skipped stitch or a broken thread. So they got out and set up the quilter=92s choice, and with the same thread, the same needle, and the same quilt, I was able to finish one side of the quilt, free motion, without any hitches or skips or any kind of problem at all. Hallelujah =96 finally some vindication! So they sent the machine to Baby Lock, my expense, and Sandy someone replaced the hook or something and fine tuned it and sent it back very promptly. I was then able to machine quilt smoothly with the feed dogs UP, but when I put the feed dogs down, bam. Skipped stitches and broken top thread. I called the Baby lock educator and endured a lot of the same tips I=92ve heard all year, but there were 2 things she told me to try that I didn=92t know, and I did. It was an improvement, but I still got skipped stitches and broken top threads.

Before calling Kathy back, I decided to do some experiments on my own that were more scientific, numbering each trial and explaining what I did.

In all of these trials the one constant is the top thread =96 a hand dyed machine quilting thread that I am using on the current quilt. Approx weight is 30

1. top thread matches bobbin. Schmetz 90/14 embroidery needle, stitch length 4.5. skipped within 5 inches of quilting then broke.
2. same threads, organ titanium needles, 90/14. though improved, the top thread frayed and then broke before a minute was up
3. all same but changed to 60 wt in bobbin, skipped and broke
4. all same but needle is schmetz microtex sharp 90/14. skipped broke
5. increased stitch length to 5, broke
6. loosened upper tension, metallic needle =96 skips.
7. called baby lock educator again. Loosened bobbin 1/16 inch, skipped and bobbin thread was visible on top.
8. tightened bobbin 1/32, top tension is average =96 broke.

Having fought with this machine for nearly a year, and doing everything every dealer and educator suggested =96 I=92m returning this machine and I never want to see it again. If you believe that the quest is a good machine, I=92ll accept a new machine in exchange. Otherwise I=92d appreciate a refund. Enclosed are the invoices for the original purchase plus the shipping costs I=92ve incurred, even though I saved the original packaging.

Musicmaker

Can you free motion with any threads other than this hand dyed one?

Make sure the dealer knows the machine is coming, so they will not refuse the delivery. Ship via a method that you can track including person who accepted the delivery.

Punctuation - make sure everytime you call out the machine Quest, that the "Q" is capitalized. Do you have the names of the BabyLock educator

- was it a real person? Put that name in!

Oh, and let them know that their treatment of you, good or bad, will be shared with your > What do you think of this letter, that will accompany my machine to

Musicmaker, there is a real art in writing a letter such as this (my DH and I have done many!).

Firstly: the letter itself should only cover *less than one side* of A4 (or your standard size, if that is different). If it is longer, it will not be read - it will be cast aside.

If you want to set out the complaint details, if they are long, you would do better to set them out on another sheet, as an attachment. Refer to the attached sheet in your letter.

Secondly: include only the outline of your complaint in the letter itself.

Thirdly: Send only photocopies of the invoices and any other similar material. Never part with the originals. They are your only evidence of full payment. They can be 'mislaid' by anyone along the line.

Make sure you put the important phrase after your signature: copy to: nnnnnnnnn, President of Baby Lock.

Finally, as Ginger said, it is very important to capitalise the first letter of all the machine names you use (and better not to abbreviate Bernina to Bernie). This is official 'stuff'.

Sorry if you didn't really want a 'seminar'. We have learnt and been successful in many areas over the years, so I wanted to help. . In message , Musicmaker writes

Excellent advice. You've put into words what I felt, but couldn't quite articulate. The letter is just a little too casual to carry much clout.

I have the same question others have asked - does the machine do this with other brands/types of thread? Many machines seem to not work properly with some types/brands of thread.

Donna in SW Idaho

In November 07 I purchased a Quest at the Chicago quilt show from Fabricsetc2. It was shipped in time for Christmas when my husband wrapped it and I waited to open it. I used it for a few months with varying degrees of success but reached a point where everything I did either caused skipped stitches or broken top threads, so in frustration I put it away and within a week or so called the dealer in Elmhurst, 3.5 hrs away from me with my problems. They agreed to have me ship it to them to look at. Mary called me and said that they?d cleaned it up and adjusted the timing and that it was working fine. Because of their distance from me, I had to arrange for a day that I could spare and drove up with the quilt that was put on hold to do some machine free motion quilting in the store and get pointers. I did, and Mary taught me a few things I didn?t know, and the quest seemed to be working fine. Brought it home and when I got it out of the box I needed to do some regular sewing ? just simple right sides together attaching 2 pieces of binding to each other. The top thread looped horribly on the underside right out of the box, and I had to tighten the top tension to maximum to get rid of the loops. Even then, I got occasional loops. I called Mary and essentially was told that there was nothing she could do since they?d already done everything they could do. Great.

By this time I had the distinct impression that all this was my fault and that, even though I?ve free motion quilted on my little, mechanical Bernina for years without trouble, I?d suddenly become a free motion idiot. Obviously, since I was the one who couldn?t use the machine, I was the problem. When I bought this machine, I thought I?d be upgrading to a machine that would be able to do more and handle bigger quilts than my Bernie.

Since I?d spent so much $$, though, I couldn?t just drop it. I took it to Stitch and Sew in Arthur IL, a small town only about 45 minutes from home. They promised to take a look and call me back, which they did. By now it was September. They didn?t have a problem with it, so I brought in the fused art quilt I was having the most recent free motion trouble with and in their store I couldn?t sew more than an inch without a skipped stitch or a broken thread. So they got out and set up the quilter?s choice, and with the same thread, the same needle, and the same quilt, I was able to finish one side of the quilt, free motion, without any hitches or skips or any kind of problem at all. Hallelujah ? finally some vindication! So they sent the machine to Baby Lock, my expense, and Sandy someone replaced the hook or something and fine tuned it and sent it back very promptly. I was then able to machine quilt smoothly with the feed dogs UP, but when I put the feed dogs down, bam. Skipped stitches and broken top thread. I called the Baby lock educator and endured a lot of the same tips I?ve heard all year, but there were 2 things she told me to try that I didn?t know, and I did. It was an improvement, but I still got skipped stitches and broken top threads.

Before calling Kathy back, I decided to do some experiments on my own that were more scientific, numbering each trial and explaining what I did.

In all of these trials the one constant is the top thread ? a hand dyed machine quilting thread that I am using on the current quilt. Approx weight is 30

1. top thread matches bobbin. Schmetz 90/14 embroidery needle, stitch length 4.5. skipped within 5 inches of quilting then broke.
2. same threads, organ titanium needles, 90/14. though improved, the top thread frayed and then broke before a minute was up
3. all same but changed to 60 wt in bobbin, skipped and broke
4. all same but needle is schmetz microtex sharp 90/14. skipped broke
5. increased stitch length to 5, broke
6. loosened upper tension, metallic needle ? skips.
7. called baby lock educator again. Loosened bobbin 1/16 inch, skipped and bobbin thread was visible on top.
8. tightened bobbin 1/32, top tension is average ? broke.

Having fought with this machine for nearly a year, and doing everything every dealer and educator suggested ? I?m returning this machine and I never want to see it again. If you believe that the quest is a good machine, I?ll accept a new machine in exchange. Otherwise I?d appreciate a refund. Enclosed are the invoices for the original purchase plus the shipping costs I?ve incurred, even though I saved the original packaging.

Musicmaker

Let's work on this sentence:

I used it for a few months with varying degrees of success but reached a point where everything I did either caused skipped stitches or broken top threads, so in frustration I put it away and within a week or so called the dealer in Elmhurst, 3.5 hrs away from me with my problems.

*...everything I did either caused...* (That seems to be saying that the problems with your Lemon Quest is something *you* did. I don't like that admission, don't even like for you to suggest such a thing. Bah!)

*...I put it away (not relevant or important)

We don't mean to be critical, we simply want your money back. A pound of flesh would be nice too. Polly

That was my thought also. The letter is WAY too long for them to even bother to read. Patti gave very good advice. Have you tried any thread other than the hand dyed? Have you set the presser foot dial to 0, and the stitch length to 0? Gen

Thanks for all the input. To answer a few questions first - I don't care to try and see if it'll free motion quilt with another thread. I've had free motion problems all year with a variety of threads and am not in the least bit inclined to try some more.

I'll be hand delivering the machine to the dealer in Arthur - not shipping it to the original dealer. I don't care if that's not the correct protocol at this point - the dealer in Elmhurst is of no help.

I'll definitely fix the punctuation and put Kathy's name right after the "baby lock educator" phrase to connect the 2. One of the things she told me to do was to set the stitch length to at least 4, which is

2 longer than the default. That did improve the results - as in I could free motion for 5 inches, or even 10 inches, before some stitches skipped.

And you're right about at least mentioning the consequences of their response - both positive and negative. Attached is my new letter - I'd appreciate continued input!!!! (I tried to be more brief, but that's really hard to do while still communicating my distress - tell me what you'd change)....................

In November 2007 I purchased a Quest at the Chicago quilt show from Fabricsetc2. It was shipped in time for Christmas when my husband wrapped it and I waited to open it. I used it for a few months with varying degrees of success but reached a point where either the stitches skipped every inch or so or the top thread broke. I called then shipped the machine to the dealer in Elmhurst. According to the dealer, nothing was wrong with the machine. I drove to the shop (3.5 hrs away) to get some tips on free motion quilting (which I am NOT new at) and to take the machine home.

Right out of the box I needed to do some regular sewing, feed dogs up =96 just simple right sides together attaching 2 pieces fabric to each other. The top thread looped horribly on the underside, and I had to tighten the top tension to maximum to get rid of the loops. Even then, I got occasional loops. I called Mary and essentially was told that there was nothing more she could do. By this time I had the distinct impression that all this was my fault and that, even though I=92ve free motion quilted on my little, mechanical Bernina for years without trouble, I=92d suddenly become a free motion idiot. Since I was the one who couldn=92t use the machine, I was the problem.

In September 2008, the next step was to try a different Baby Lock Dealer. I took it to Stitch and Sew in Arthur IL, a small town only about 45 minutes from home. They promised to take a look and call me back, which they did. They didn=92t have a problem with it, so I brought in the current =91problem=92 art quilt and in their store I couldn=92t sew more than an inch without a skipped stitch or a broken thread. So they set up the Quilter=92s Choice machine, and with the same thread, the same needle, and the same quilt, I was able to finish one side of the quilt, free motion, without any hitches or skips or any kind of problem at all. Hallelujah =96 finally some vindication! So they sent the machine to Baby Lock, and a technician named Sandy replaced the hook or something and fine tuned it and sent it back very promptly. I was then able to machine quilt smoothly with the feed dogs UP, but when I put the feed dogs down, bam. Skipped stitches and broken top thread. I called the Baby Lock educator, Kathy. She told me 2 things to try that I didn=92t know, and I did try them. It was an improvement, but I still got skipped stitches and broken top threads. Before calling Kathy back, I decided to do some experiments on my own that were more scientific, numbering each trial and explaining what I did. The attached page outlines those trials. The actual quilted samples are with the machine.

Having fought with this machine for nearly a year, and doing everything every dealer and educator suggested =96 I=92m returning this machine and I never want to see it again. If you believe that the Quest is a good machine, I=92ll accept a new machine in exchange. Otherwise I=92d appreciate a refund. Enclosed are copies of the invoices for the original purchase plus the shipping costs I=92ve incurred, even though I saved the original packaging. Though I have spent the year complaining to my quilting buddies online, from every corner of the planet, who will gladly testify to the heartache and trouble I=92ve gone through with this machine, I will gladly tell them that you have satisfied me with a new machine and that I once again love Baby Lock. Cindy Bettinger, 11 Kickapoo PL Charleston, IL, 61920, 217-348-0870 Attention President: Mr. Steven J. Jeffery 1760 Gilsinn Ln, Fenton, MO, 63026 =20 (636) 349-2333=FD

My grammer and communications skills are poor so I can't help there but I'd cancel the msg. and remove your personal info and then repost here on the public group. Good luck. Taria

For some reason, I updated this a few hours ago and...zip - nothing - and I value the input I've gotten already so I NEED to run this new version of my letter by you - give me more advice!! before you read it - to answer in general the questions asked about the thread and stitch length etc - no thanks - not interested even a tiny little bit in doing any more trials - I have had free motion problems all year with a variety of threads, needles, tensions, and stitch lengths. ps - in the last hour I've been happily free motioning with my little Bernina quite nicely, no problems, with the same threads that were skipping, fraying, and breaking on the Quest....

In November 2007 I purchased a Quest at the Chicago quilt show from Fabricsetc2. It was shipped in time for Christmas when my husband wrapped it and I waited to open it. I used it for a few months with varying degrees of success but reached a point where either the stitches skipped every inch or so or the top thread broke. I called then shipped the machine to the dealer in Elmhurst. According to the dealer, nothing was wrong with the machine. I drove to the shop (3.5 hrs away) to get some tips on free motion quilting (which I am NOT new at) and to take the machine home.

Right out of the box I needed to do some regular sewing, feed dogs up =96 just simple right sides together attaching 2 pieces fabric to each other. The top thread looped horribly on the underside, and I had to tighten the top tension to maximum to get rid of the loops. Even then, I got occasional loops. I called Mary and essentially was told that there was nothing more she could do. By this time I had the distinct impression that all this was my fault and that, even though I=92ve free motion quilted on my little, mechanical Bernina for years without trouble, I=92d suddenly become a free motion idiot. Since I was the one who couldn=92t use the machine, I was the problem.

In September 2008, the next step was to try a different Baby Lock Dealer. I took it to Stitch and Sew in Arthur IL, a small town only about 45 minutes from home. They promised to take a look and call me back, which they did. They didn=92t have a problem with it, so I brought in the current =91problem=92 art quilt and in their store I couldn=92t sew more than an inch without a skipped stitch or a broken thread. So they set up the Quilter=92s Choice machine, and with the same thread, the same needle, and the same quilt, I was able to finish one side of the quilt, free motion, without any hitches or skips or any kind of problem at all. Hallelujah =96 finally some vindication! So they sent the machine to Baby Lock, and a technician named Sandy replaced the hook or something and fine tuned it and sent it back very promptly. I was then able to machine quilt smoothly with the feed dogs UP, but when I put the feed dogs down, bam. Skipped stitches and broken top thread. I called the Baby Lock educator, Kathy. She told me 2 things to try that I didn=92t know, and I did try them. It was an improvement, but I still got skipped stitches and broken top threads. Before calling Kathy back, I decided to do some experiments on my own that were more scientific, numbering each trial and explaining what I did. The attached page outlines those trials. The actual quilted samples are with the machine.

Having fought with this machine for nearly a year, and doing everything every dealer and educator suggested =96 I=92m returning this machine and I never want to see it again. If you believe that the Quest is a good machine, I=92ll accept a new machine in exchange. Otherwise I=92d appreciate a refund. Enclosed are copies of the invoices for the original purchase plus the shipping costs I=92ve incurred, even though I saved the original packaging. Though I have spent the year complaining to my quilting buddies online, from every corner of the planet, who will gladly testify to the heartache and trouble I=92ve gone through with this machine, I will gladly tell them that you have satisfied me with a new machine and that I once again love Baby Lock. Cindy Bettinger, 11 Kickapoo PL Charleston, IL, 61920, 217-348-0870 Attention President: Mr. Steven J. Jeffery 1760 Gilsinn Ln, Fenton, MO, 63026 =20 (636) 349-2333=FD