Please note that the proponent for this groups has no history in Google
> of ever posting to any group about scrapbooks, and certainly no history
> of posting to the group in question (which is carried by Google).
The proponent has stated the proposal is on behalf of his wife.
The
steps necessary to post to this group in Google are minimal, as I
> proved a few days ago when I asked the current users of the group what
> their feelings were about supporting an RFD process.
>
> The answer was an overwhelming "No."
Yes I know that, however the group has been offered once again to the process. All those of the group when/if a a CFV is issued can note No.
I have posted a note to the current users of the group via Google,
> since the RFD itself is already archived but shows no signs of having
> been posted to the group. I do not know whether this was due to
> oversight, the common Google delay, or some other reason.
I cross posted to the group, so that they might more readily participate in the discussion.
Here's my $0.02 on this hot-button subject... I jst talked to my dad, who is kind of a usenet guru... he does all sorts of stuff online and has been for years (like the very early
90s!) He moderates several groups and participates >Dev>
Well, I know for a fact that the German server will not carry r.c.s. because it's not an official group. I tried this summer because they were my server while up at the lake. I had dial up and it was so slow that using Google was extremely frustrating. I just didn't read r.c.s.
But that is an ISP, not all ISP's have a news server. I was using juno this summer and needed to use the German newsgroup server to access Usenet because they did not have a news server.
That is true... if I called my ISP and ask for a certain group thye would note it and in a few days we would have it... It is simple. But I can see some may already be overloaded and can't add anymore or they just don't carry the newsgruops at all. Just my opinion also!
but cant a program like Agent and others be used IN PLACE of a local server.. ?? Im not flaiming..Just asking.. as in Carlsbad.. local ISP... HAHAHA JOKE.. nothing is carried in that town.. but could easily access the group and FAST i might add thru Agent.. its free.. does it not work for all??
I just want to reiterate....*IF* the isp carries newsgroups. Not all do. Some people use one ISP then need to use a separate server. This is where you run into not being able to access r.c.s.
I found a news server that carries the group and after a one-time charge of $3.95 to set up an account, is free. It is limited to 50 megs of downloads per day, but in a text group like this, you're not likely to go over that amount. Posts do not count against your 50 meg limit.
If you want further info, you can e-mail me at snipped-for-privacy@charter.net. Please put RCS in the subject line though - I've been getting a lot of spam lately and have been deleting a lot of e-mails without opening them. I'd hate for yours to be one of them!
Agent as a Newsreader does not replace a provider, it uses what provider(s) you tell it to use. I do not know what you poinred agent to to give you access to this group if you ISP did not carry it.
Well, I have Charter cable for an isp and they don't carry the group, and I didn't want to ask them to - for exactly the reasons y'all don't want to go official.
Sorry :) Should have included the message I was replying to - I didn't realize how little sense it made without it!
I didn't ask Charter to carry the group. I found a news server that carries the group and gives you access for a one-time charge of $3.95. Then someone-I-don't-remember-who replied that the group was certainly worth 4 bucks. I was just agreeing.
ohhhhhhhhhh that was me! lol im thinkin ive frozen my glue dots off today and am no longer in a right state of mine! EAT DRINK AND BE MERRY TO ALL! lol
Actually cbet, I have Charter too, and have asked them on several occasions to carry the group, but have never gotten an answer back, so I use a different server for access.
Teresa in MD
"cbet" didn't want to ask them to - for exactly the reasons y'all don't want to go
There seems to be a lot of confusion and misunderstanding by RCS folks about the role of the news.groups process and "The Big-8".
First of all, to make something as clear as possible: you're in our administrative 'space'. The name rec.crafts.scrapbooks is a Big-8 name; all of rec.* is Big-8, along with comp.*, misc.*, talk.*, soc.*, sci.*, humanities.*, and news.* . RCS was created locally on a few servers, outside the Big-8 process, after being proposed and failing to gather enough interest in its vote.
News servers have a perfect right to do that; any news server admin can do pretty much whatever they want to, as long as it doesn't cause neighboring news servers problems. BUT. rec.* is still in the Big-8.
Just because it was created locally on a few servers, and now has some readers on those servers, does not mean that the Big-8 newsgroup creation process loses any authority over holding further RFDs and votes about making it official Usenet-wide. Neither you, nor your news admins, nor for that matter anyone on news.groups has the right to say that it's now 'off limits' for proposals. Even if those proposals are highly unpopular in the existing limited/local group.
ANYONE can, at any time, start a discussion in news.groups about forming or changing a Big-8 group. ANYONE can, at any time, send in a RFD to formally start the process to hold a vote on a new group.
The person who sent the RFD wasn't a news.groups regular; he was a random normal person who said that he did it because his wife is a scrapbooks person and she wanted to use the group.
That person has said that they are abandoning their RFD due to negative feedback. However, ANYONE else in the world can legitimately post a new RFD at any point in the future and restart the process. That no news.groups regular is likely to do so now that we know how you feel does not protect you... anyone, including 'Uni' who started all this, could RFD it at any time and start it all back up again.
There is no protection in convincing the regular users of news.groups that your group shouldn't be made Big-8 official. None of us has the right to stop a RFD if some other person out there sends one in. We can all be against it, and all vote against it. But we don't have any sort of override authority to just say "No, you can't propose that". The only people who can override it are the moderation team for news.announce.newgroups, and they usually only do that if the proposal is badly formatted or misnamed.
Those in rec.crafts.scrapbooks who don't want it made official have every right to participate in news.groups discussions about doing so, and every right to vote for or against such a proposal if it ever makes it to vote. You have exactly as much say on an individual basis as anyone else does, in that process.
Your group is not protected in any sense by being unofficial. And it never was. If you thought it was, you were fooling yourself and/or ignorant of how the Big-8 work. It can be protected by your individual efforts, if you participate in the discussions and vote it down if that's what you want. But that's all.
If you really truly want something that is protected and limited then the choice that was made initially, to create it with that name and to create it locally on a few servers, was the wrong choice.
If you truly want a private space, you need a mailing list or web discussion board of some sort. A newsgroup which is essentially squatting in Big-8 newsgroup name space is always subject to Big-8 coming along and doing what we do... making groups official, or not.
My personal opinion is that I would just leave you all alone. But it's not up to me, or anyone else who is a regular on news.groups . It is ultimately up to anyone who wants to RFD it, and those who chose to vote assuming that proponent keeps going all the way to a vote. That one proponent came forwards with a proper RFD and then changed their mind does not protect you; someone else could take it forwards. It may be that nobody does. But you aren't protected from it in any sense. That is not going to change. We can't put you 'off limits' even if that would simplify things.
If what you really really want is a truly private or managed space to discuss these things, you need to look to changing from being an unofficial Usenet group to some other medium that really does offer the types of access control and privacy that you are looking for.
-george william herbert snipped-for-privacy@retro.com
You know, I'm simply amazed at the rudeness level from you. Here someone was trying to explain in a *very* friendly way how the process works, and you come back with a rude and flippant answer. You people don't have to worry about flamers coming in and invading your little utopia. From what I've seen, a few vociferous posters have enough rudeness to go around, amongst yourselves.
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