I have looked at several videos on using the bowl gouge and listened, as carefully as I can to the audio. In addition, I have looked at several websites/forums where this issue is discussed. ---Still can't get the hang of it, the hollowing in particular. Most videos are shot by a videographer, I think, who doesn't really know what's going on, and so, misses the points that a novice like me needs. One example: the instructor says something like: "hold the gouge like this". The video shows the instructor's fist clamped around the tool, while the tool's business end is completely hidden by the hand.
I would quit bowl turning altogether, and switch to basket weaving, but we have 70 acres of woods and lot of bowl blanks drying.
Is there any way an ordinary human can learn this skill without a live tutor?
Well, time and patience. You don't say which videos you've watched, whether from a DVD or just on youtube. There are good commercial videos out - one of my favorites is Turning Wood by Richard Raffan. Back in the late 90s I watched it every night for a week then went out to the shop to practice.
The best bet however is an actual live instructor. Check the AAW website - there may be a chapter w/in driving distance. I'd be surprised if you can't find someone near you to give you some pointers.
Pete - I was a Raffan fan learning before retiring. Have to get back to it someday.
Remember the inside edge - protected by a large rubbing area or face of the tool. The face rubs the wood and you angle or twist the cutting edge on-the-fly keeping the face on the wood and inside edge cutting.
Raffan loves green wood - he can really fly with it and get sprayed all over with juice.
Mart> I have looked at several videos on using the bowl gouge and listened, as
Pete, the suggestion to go to the AAW website is a very good one, for two reasons, a member in your area and even better a club in your area. Club members LOVE to help beginners.
As far as any help here, the bowl gouge really is no different than a spindle gouge, if you can handle one, you can handle the other. The rules are exactly the same - rub the bevel. The difference is the angle you will find yourself using on the inside of the bowl. Expect to, at times, have the end of the handle of the gouge all the way over on the back side of the lathe, just so you can get the cut started by easing the gouge into the face of the blank.
A good rule of thumb is to turn a couple of bowls with shallow depths, just to get the feel of the tool. Once you get that down, get more experiemental.
Look up "Bowl turning made easy" by Bill Grumbine.. That $30 video changed my turning.. Bill makes it look easy like the others do, but explains how he does it, including angle, etc... Well worth the money..
place the gouge on the rest with the handle almost straight down and the flute of the gouge facing the bowl or whatever.. You have 3 angles to think about but the main 2 are angle of the tool to the work in relation to the lathe bed and angle of the tool handle towards your body... Most teachers recommend 45 degrees as a starting point for both.. The "attack angle" will depend a lot on the grind type and angle, so these would be atarting angles for an "out of the box' bowl gouge, not a swept wing.. Sorry that I can't find the words to explain this better, feel free to ask any questions that you come up with..
SLOWLY bring the handle up, remembering to keep the tip of the giuge above center of the piece.. As you make LIGHT contact with the wood, gently turn the handle of the gouge like a screwdriver until the cutting edge is making shavings..
I'm rusty at the moment (too much time building shop, very little time actually turning, as the shop isn't done) but the best advice (other than getting someone to show you, but then not regarding that as gospel) I can give you for learning by yourself is to take some of your not-even dry (or quite, quite green, even) wood, chainsaw it until you can get it on a faceplate (more robust that chuck-mounting), and make shavings, WITH NO INTENTION OF A USABLE RESULT. ie, approach it an attitude that you are making shavings for smoking meat, or mulch, or something, rather than "wasting a valuable bowl blank." Use some crappy trees or crappy parts of trees. Crank through 10 a week, or 10 a day, or 10 a month, depending how much time you have. You'll know when you can start thinking about saving the result.
As best I recall, I mostly use the wing over almost flat ( I think it's a fingernail grind - the one Glaser ships with) except when drilling in to make the main hole, and I often just use a drill to make the main hole, as it's much faster that way for a bowl shallow enough that you can use a drill to do that, and then hollow from it.
I am mostly self taught. I've found plenty of things in books that don't appear to make sense in practice, and I don't do things that way if it doesn't work after I've tried it a few times, and something I've tried does work better. Having a lot of firewood and being a bored teenager with one TV channel (or none for the 4 years or so the TV was dead and did not get replaced) and no internet and a long bike-ride from town probably helped me learn in the beginning.
I am just a weekend turner, but I was able take a wood turning class at a local collage. I will never forget I was having problems when the teachers aid came over when I asked for help. I went to hand him the gouge and he said you do it. Next thing I know he reaches up to the end of the gouge handle and moves and twisted just a little and the shaving started flying. I am finding that wood turning is a touchy feely thing. I would look for a club in your area and ask for help. Guys will fall over themselves trying to help. Have them stand behind you and give you that little assist. Once you feel it you will have it made. Once you have that feeling go home and turn some practice bowls. As for me I did not have a lathe and the next weekend I thought I would have it made, but I lost it. It took almost the whole class to get that feeling back and get in the grove. I just did not re-enforce that feeling to have it cement in. Like the bike once you get it, you will not forget. Good luck
On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 9:54:43 -0500, Pete S wrote (in message ):
Pete, have you done any other turning? I ask, because in spindle turning, there are some basic cuts that are used - a scraping cut, and a shearing or slicing cut. With the shearing or slicing cuts, the bevel of the chisel rides on the surface of the wood, and then the chisel is raised ever so slightly to let the cutting edge slice or shear the wood. If the chisel is cutting too aggressively, the back end of the handle is lowered until the cutting action stops. The chisel is still in contact with the wood, but riding on the bevel. You can practice this touch with a gouge on the outside of a cylindrical turning (spindle turning). You may dig in a few times, that's okay. You are getting a feel for what it is like for the gouge to be "riding" on the bevel, and either cutting or not cutting, depending on how high or low you have the end of the tool handle.
Once you get the feel for controlling how the gouge cuts on a spindle, you will then use the same feel on a faceplate type of turning. There is a different kind of force working against you on a faceplate turning, though. If you touch your gouge at the center of the faceplate, and it digs in, you will immediately end up cutting a spiral groove from the center outwards. To defeat this force, start at the periphery or rim of the faceplate, and work towards the center. Now, to help you a little, set up for a scraping cut, and make a shallow channel or groove about an inch in from the outer rim of your faceplate piece. (This is kinda like training wheels on a bike.) The groove provides a place for your bevel to ride, at the beginning of your project. Just like you did on the spindle piece, let the bevel of the gouge ride on that groove, just to see what it feels like. Now, slightly change the angle of your tool handle so that the cutting edge can start shearing some wood. Look for some you tube videos, to see what kind of tool angles are being used. You will be intending to work from the periphery of the faceplate disc towards the center. After a few passes your faceplate becomes a shallow bowl. As others have said, this is a "feely" kind of thing. I cannot use a skew chisel to shape a spindle piece, but I can use a gouge on a spindle piece. Go figure. For me, a gouge is easier to control on a spindle project, as there is only a very small amount of cutting edge that can possibly engage the wood. I have never had a live tutor. The nearest club for me would be forty miles away, in a city I do not like to go to. I have managed to learn a few things with a gouge, and I can make bowls. I don't have the touch for really thin stuff, or heavily spalted wood, but I keep trying. I also have a wood stove in the living room, and my dear wife likes wood shavings for her garden - great mulch.
I was watching a youtube vid today about turning a natural edge bowl, where he'd rounded the heel of his bowl gouge to effectively improve the curve from bottom to wall... Neat trick.
Thanks for all the input so far. I got 3 inexpensive bowl gouges on Ebay. They all have about 35° bevels. I guess my first step is the grind them to a lot less aggressive angle before going at it again. I have seen recommendations all the way from 45 to 80°. I will try about 70° for starters. I will also try to do the fingernail grind that I see on youtube. Metal turning has been my main use of a lathe for about 55 years. I guess I am having trouble relating to wood- ie: holding the tools in my hands.
On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 12:00:45 -0500, Pete S wrote (in message ):
At the risk of mentioning the very obvious, you will soon learn that wood will impose its rules upon you, much the same as the various kinds of metal impose their rules on the engine lathe worker. I wish you the best of luck as you start this new adventure in turning. Be willing to make mistakes. Whatever works is right. Protect yourself. Have a good 4th of July. tom koehler
If you can, pick up an inexpensive bowl gouge like the ones Penn State sells, like for about $25... Try it nd if you like it, duplicate the angle on your other gouges.. As you progress, you'll find that most production turners use at LEAST
2 different angles, depending on how deep/shallow the bowl will be..
You've received some good advice, the best being to find someone to tutor you a bit. However, if that is not available, I would suggest you go to my web site and download the sample issue of More Woodturning available there. On page 32, I wrote a story called , "Making Bowls Fred's Way." That might be of help to you. The bowl grind that I've used for a number of years is the Ellsworth Grind, which has a 60 degree nose angle and swept back wings. There is a picture of the grind in the article. The Ellsworth Grind works very well on both the outside of the bowl and on the inside. The grind is easiest to do with the Ellsworth Jig, which I believe is available from Woodcraft, that is where I purchased mine a number of years ago. I found that this bowl grind made turning bowls much easier. With the
60 degree nose, you can turn from the rim to the center of the bottom of the bowl in one continuous cut. I suggest you read that article.
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