I have always been grateful for the things I have learned at conferences and symposiums. As time has passed, however, I find that I seem to have less interest in attending the various workshops and presentations. This year at Anaheim I only attended two sessions. At the opening session a poll was taken to determine how many repeat attendees were at the meeting. I was surprised that the vast majority of the 800 or so present were attending their first symposium. I also attended the BYU turning meeting and again the majority of the attendees were newer turners. I would be interested in learning about what other intermediate and advanced turners feel should be included in a program that would attract their interest. I feel that it would be possible to design a program that would meet the needs of all turners. I would like to see what other members of the discussion group think would be included in such a program. Jim Christiansen of KestrelCreek
It would be nice for you to send this to AAW. It has been hard over the years to get this point across. They often judge the symposium as successful (and it is) by the number of attendees, but they don't consider who
*doesn't* come, in large part due to the points you brought up. David Ellsworth and I have been to ALL of the AAW symposia, and I think we are starting to wonder why. :-)
Jim, this year was my first AAW symposium, but I have been to 6 or 7 Texas Turn or Two's. I also found myself skipping some rotations and spending time in the vendor area. John Jordan can confirm that because his booth was one area I would end up when I got bored. I will admit that I found some of the sessions to basic for me, but I kept thinking about how they could be different to be interesting to more experienced turners.
One of the problems I see is that anything that is project based, ie turn a hollow vessel, will have a lot of review for someone with any hollowing experience. So for those turners to get any little nuggets they have to see a lot of stuff they know. I've done that enough times that I tend to sit near the rear so that I can escape if I see a low probability of learning anything.
On the other hand, a pure slide presentation about advanced subjects doesn't show me how it was done. At this year's AAW, I went to presentations by Art Liestman and another by Andi Wolfe. Both were good for me. They had the tools they use to enhance the surface, they used them, then passed around the results. The problem was, and Art and Andi don't take this wrong, that they use similar techniques and I found myself losing interest the second time around. That isn't the demonstrators fault, that's in the planning of the demo's.
Back to your original question. I now go to these things mainly for the technique presentations and for the vendor areas for hands on of new tools, and to see other turners that I've met over the years. The technique presentations need to be active, in that they actually show how to do the technique, but avoid the basic turning part. I realize that some techniques can't be show, like Phil Brenion's black powder texturing, but many can.
Just one thought from over the pond - but from someone who made a huge holiday detour to attend with regard to point 4. Big cities make it easier for people to make a deliberate visit if their only interest is the gallery (collectors etc). Case in point here is 2004 - I am intending to take a long weekend to "pop" over to Florida just for the show and see what the East Coast turners are doing.
It is also a great opportunity for those of us who have NO interest in the technical side of things (the writer for one) to meet people and see their work - both what is on display and what else they may have secreted in various boxes in their car!
The latter was how Shirley and I met Art - and ended up buying not the piece on display which we were intending to buy but two other pieces instead.
Ok, different line of thought..... What EXACTLY is an experienced turner, and what EXACTLY do they want to see that they can't really figure out for themselves?? As an example I'll use John Jordan because I really like him and he's a pretty experienced turner. If I went up to John and said, "hey looky at this new carving/embellishment/etc I'm doing this year". Well John is a pretty smart fellow. If it was something that interested him, he might ask me about 2-3 technical questions and from that he'd probably know everything he needs to do the same thing if he wanted to. John does not need a hand-holding session to figure something related to turning to figure it out. There are a LOT of experienced turners with the same level of cleverness when it comes to turning. So if I can't tempt John with a turning session, what would John be looking for??? I know if I came up with a "this is how you sell a million dollars worth of turnings" type session I might get his interest. :-)
And that isn't too far from the truth. One of the most successful sessions I've seen had no turning, no slides - all discussion and was a workshop for dealing with galleries and how to break into commercial sales. That session was packed with experienced turners! A full 1/2 was made up of our favorite big names. The business side of woodturning is nobody's favorite subject, but admittedly a subject a lot of experienced turners have not 'mastered' and want to find out about.
Other successful workshops I've seen have dealt with HOW TO DEMONSTRATE. Many intermediate turners want to do more, but demonstrating is also about public speaking and preparation. Something in this area would help. Oddly, this generally has no turning, and yet it was packed.
These days, more wood turners seem to have an interest in selling their wares. Why shouldn't a symposium include more on sales. Invite someone from the IRS to speak on tax implications. Invite a CPA or someone from the small business association to talk about SB loans. Invite a lawyer so we all would have someone to make fun of. HOW about something on insurance?
Want to do something different??? Find someone to do a webpage for woodturners segment which shows how to build something that takes advantage of things like ebay, rec.crafts.woodturning, and other free advertising sites. Don't think this would fly? Anyone remember the few after-hours sessions when the webmaster of the first AAW page? They was great attendance and this was after hours!
Well anyway, that's my 2 cents worth. I kinda ran out of steam on where I was going with this. Peace.
Congratulations? on your new position. :-) It's good to have someone with a with a background of a working craftsman.
You say it's important that you listen to the novice and intermediate turners, and of course you should. I've never in all my years with AAW heard anyone suggest otherwise. The interest and enthusiasm of newer turners brings a lot to the organization. AAW has always been an *inclusive * organization, but some of us feel it is less so than in the early years. Again, ask yourself who is not coming (anymore). If the people who made this happen in the first place, and the turners who have been (and are) leaders in the field are not coming (except to demo) then the novices and intermediates are being deprived of the opportunity to know them.
The conference committee needs to decide what sort of flavor it would like to see at the symposium, and set about making it happen-not simply fill the slots, and those decisions should be made by people who have a real interest in the demonstrations. It will need to solicit demonstrators/speakers and not rely on applications (which has resulted in some marginal demonstrators), or arbitrary rules on how often one may demonstrate/speak. The popular demonstrators/speakers are popular for good reason (maybe to beginners, maybe to all), and since the symposium travels the same people are of interest to the turners who have not seen them before. Of course, new demonstrators, local/regional folks etc, and people outside woodturning all may be appropriate and of interest. It used to be as simple as a recommendation from those of us who get around, and the board members who were in charge of the symposium asking around. There are plenty of folks who would never consider "applying", nor should they be expected to.
It has been difficult in the recent past to get approval for non-turning demos, slide shows, panel discussions etc, although they are always *very* popular.( It was nice to have Stephen Hogbin there this year). I led a couple of panel discussions some years back called "Just Ask" , they were nothing more than a chance for folks to ask questions of a group of "well known" turners. They were great, the rooms were filled, and the questions ranged from technical to esoteric.
The best session I have EVER seen was one of the early conferences in Seattle. Mike Peterson did a slide show with two projectors and (fairly loud) music. No narration, no discussion-it blew everyone away.
Personally, I am interested much more in the "why", or the history of one's work than the how, and suspect others are as well. How about discussions regarding business, ethics, design concepts etc? How about some of the board members going to other conferences, like SNAG, ABANA, or the Furniture Society, or the Glass Art Society conference for ideas?
I think I agree with much of what has been said here. Arch raises lots of ideas. I don't think any single thing is the stopper, but there are shades of gray on many.
Here are a few of my own reflections. I have been to four "big" symposia (3 Provos and one AAW). I have gone to most rotations, but at the AAW, I only went to half. The reasons for attending fewer demos at the AAW include:
- Vendor area was a big attraction - my first opportunity to see many of these up close.
- Spent a few hours in the instant gallery. There is often as much education right there as there is listening to/watching a demo.
- Many of the demonstrators I have seen recently in other venues (either our local club or Provo).
- Demonstration topics were not of interest to me.
- Too much fun socializing with internet friends that I met for the first time face-to-face.
When I started turning, our local club had arranged for more than a dozen "big name" demonstrators within that 2-year window of time. I loved it. I would like more of that, but our local club has now swung to be more local demonstrators doing more basic stuff.
I believe we all have an obligation to share our abilities as well as watch others. Our local club now hosts an annual mini-symposium and we focus on beginner turners. I demonstrate there and enjoy it greatly. Our club also has mentors and I am one of those. We have mentor get-togethers to encourage people to participate.
Maybe the AAW should continue to focus on "beginners". John Jordan could comment on this, but I suspect that the first few symposia did not do a lot of demonstrations that would be considered state-of-the-art by today's standards. If I understand our collective history well, 15 years ago, most of us were rookies. If you continue to offer the same level turning demo, therefore, you will continue to draw in the beginners. This isn't necessarily bad. Maybe the AAW needs a two-pronged approach. The annual symposium continues to focus on technique, tools, process and skills. A second prong addresses art, cross disciplinary activities (metal, glass, paint, fabrics, wood, etc). In this way, maybe the Emma Lake type of thing or what the Woodturning Center in Philly does every year serves that need, but they need to become broader for more of us to participate.
As the art/craft continues to expand, there will still always be people at the beginning/novice level. There will also be people that do not progress past a certain capability. Neither of these is bad, nor should they be viewed as a failure of AAW and local clubs to provide adequate service to their members.
1) The gallery teaches the old heads more than the young ones. They haven't the experience to even hazard a guess how to do some of the things they see there.
2) Those who have achieved some success in turning tend to "specialize," even if it is merely a stage of development, and are more concerned with perfecting their current passion. Can't ever have enough demonstrations to cover all these folks' interests.
So perhaps the best thing to do is have a greater amount of time devoted to show and tell. Benefits the greatest number in the least time.
The AAW is interested in why folks attend, and what parts of the symposium folks attend.
I went to the Pasadena symposium - it was my first one. I also went to the open AAW meeting at the Pasadena symposium (on Friday evening). The meeting was about 1-1.5 hours long. The symposium and attendance was discussed quite a bit. The organization and content of the annual symposium was also discussed. The board of directors and the president were listening and participating.
One factor that affects attendance is where (in the country) the symposium is set up. Apparently the southeast and southwest areas tend to draw more attendance. There are a number of other factors as well, and some of them were discussed.
My observation is that the Pasadena symposium was pretty darned well organized. I also thought there was a good variety of demonstration topics. And I thought there was a good balance between demos, vendors, and instant gallery. I've been to a number of computer and software conferences - and the AAW conference content and organization ranks with the best of them.
I am an intermediate level (I guess!)-try to and usually manage to sell enough of my output to support my tool habit and finance an annual trip to a workshop or conference. Believe that I have attended the majority of AAW symposia. Some thoughts on what I'd like to see: presentations on how to display/present your work: eg make your craft show space "Unpassupable". More on design: the gallery critiques are great , maybe expand the format to more speakers, 2 sessions, etc. Connie Mississippi led a session at (I think) the symposium at Davis where problems got tossed out and people bounced their ideas off each other and tried to handle. John Jordan's idea of having board members attend conferences of other groups is great and should be followed up on. There are probably lots of ideas to steal with pride!
Location: big cities do make travel arrangements convenient. College campuses hold down costs. Tossup??
Years ago AAW switched to summer conferences so that teachers could attend. In the ten or so symposia I have made, I think I met one teacher. Fall, nearly anywhere strikes me as better than Orlando in late July!
Yeah, right, Kip. You're certainly NOT intermediate level. With that kind of scale I'd hate to think of where I would be placed!
I've not been to an AAW symposium but would certainly consider it. I've been to numerous other national symposiums in the healthcare and technology fields, however. After a couple of years of each type, it seems to all boil down to seeing friends, making new contacts, and seeing what's new in the supplies/machines/equipment/etc. area. The how-to's are mostly handled by the smaller regional meetings and product demonstrations by the companies or innovators in that area. At least this has been my experiences in those fields.
I'm no fan of symposia in large cities. There are only so many times a person can see San Diego, Minneapolis, Boston, Houston, or New Orleans in a lifetime and not go "ho-hum". Or maybe it's just me. Personally, when I go to a symposium, I actually go for the SYMPOSIUM and not all the other junk that gets advertised as a benefit of the location chosen.
I'd much rather a National Symposium represent the entire national scene (woodturning in this case). Sure, there needs to be a balance of topics and skill levels but an over-emphasis on the advanced skill levels would quickly destroy it. The beginners and intermediates require the most information and resources. The National Symposium is ideal to bring all of this together in one place.
I don't go to many large symposia these days in the software development field. Perhaps like the advanced woodturners who are not as enamored of the National Symposium as they once were, I've seen enough of the general topics that are constantly re-hashed at those symposia and, instead, opt for the smaller more tightly-focused meetings for advanced topics.
I'm not so sure that Fall or Spring would be a good time, at least in my perspective, for a crafts/arts type of meeting (yes, I got tired of typing symposia!). I see far more craft fairs, gallery events, and general preparation going on during those times rather than the Winter and Summer months. I know that I would have no chance at all to attend in Fall or Spring. I'd be far more able to in the Winter months.
- Andrew (decidedly a woodturning beginner .. but moving sideways quickly!)
1) I would like to see more of the technical skills (or their opinions thereof) explained by experienced turners. For me the most valuable rotation was the Mahoney/Batty demo that wasn't part of the official scehdule. They expressed opinions why they liked this tool, that steel, pulled versus pushed, grinding angles, etc. Maybe technical 'panel demos' where there was a given focus and three or four experts give their viewpoints and maybe show an example.
2) I would like to see a 'get away from it all' hospitality suite set up where you could expect to run into other woodturners and just talk (and learn!).
3) I don't remember any spindle technique demos. We don't always turn bowls and hollow forms with surface adornment.
It's true I could probably figure out how you do it with minimal help, but chances are I don't care how you do it. (unless I want to do it myself) I'm more concerned with whether I like it or not....... I find that wonder less
*how* people do things, but I do often wonder *why*. :-)
What bothers me is that some presume that because some of us are experienced or proficient or technically/aesthetically somewhat advanced, that we no longer have any desire to learn. Nothing could be further from the truth. Who knows what will interest anyone? Sometimes some simple technical demo might be great fun. A couple of years ago a student showed me the proper, very simple, way to sharpen a drill bit by hand-I was happy for weeks! I wouldn't go to a ornamental turning demo with a gun to my head (I know you would, without the gun, Nick), but would be first in line to see Gorst do a slide show *about* his work and ideas and inspirations to do (very good) ornamental work.
This is not that hard. Ask someone that does good work to do a demo or lecture or slide show that is not the (their) typical how-to demo. Those that are interested will go, some will love it, and some will find it a waste of time. Bring in people from completely outside wood. Painters, photographers, how about some of the great living potters on form....surface.....history of the vessel......etc. How about some discussions of (the long history of) sculpture and where turning fits in that. (hint: just gluing pieces into/onto one another and/or adding other materials doesn't make it sculpture) I see a lot of attempts at sculpture in the instant gallery. How about just a good long session on the history of contemporary turning-very few people have a clue, yet a majority of the makers of our short history are still alive!
Jim, it is all about inspiration. Inspiration is found in different places depending on where the woodturner is on the continum of skill and artistic development.
New turners get their inspiration from watching turners more advanced then them turn. They want to emulate turners whose work they admire. They want to see the tools and techniques used by those turners. These turners are completely enthralled by all the new tools and techniques. Some even spend more time with the vendors that in the rotations. While they are in the process of acquiring skills it is very helpful to discuss and watch other turners. Some turners are happy to stay in this phase a real long time.
As you have noticed journeyman turners are usually past all that. They need something different to inspire them. Their inspiration comes from places outside of turning, away from the turning symposia, from looking within, through observing their environment, through testing ideas and working WITH not watching other turners. Here is a short list of turners and what has inspired some of their work.
Mark Sfirri - baseball Betty Scarpino - eggs/nests Christian Burchard - fairy tale carriages Jacques Vesery - birds/feathers Mark Gardner - ceremonial pots Ron Fleming & Brenda Berhens - plants Craig Nutt - vegetables Frank Sudol - endangered animals Ron Layport - birds/wolves Michael Peterson - rock outcrops and land formations Binh Pho - Japanese culture Jim Christiansen - dinosaurs, African art
As you can see from this list, journeymen turners would be better served by taking a walk in the woods or a garden, visiting a museum, reading nursery rhymes, visiting an archeological dig, taking in a baseball game, meditating or even taking a motorcycle trip to Nelson BC. There is just no way to fit this into a symposium and still call it a "woodturning conference".
I found the discussions that Stephen Hogbin led at the last AAW Symposium to be the most inspirational things I've particapted in at any woodturning event. While he did show some slides of his woodturning it really wasn't about woodturning at all. It was about the fact that if we want to be artists then we had better well think about what kind of messages we want to communicate with our art. The art is but a medium through which to communicate. Having a message and communicating it clearly is what separates good art from failed art.
I hope this helps.
Will
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--- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Christiansen" Newsgroups: rec.crafts.woodturning Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 9:29 PM Subject: Symposiums,Conferences
Jim - I think any large symposium is going to have to have demonstrations for all levels of ability. Demonstrations on hollowing, green bowl turning and the like are going to cover a lot of basic techniques that more experienced turners already use or have seen before. Demonstrations on other techniques (e.g., surface enhancements) may offer some new territory for some turners, but certainly not all. I'm sure the organizers try to balance the types of demonstrations offered, but sometimes the mix doesn't work because of scheduling problems with potential demonstrators, geographic location and the like.
I attended partial demonstrations of a lot of different techniques at the Provo symposium, and I enjoyed the variety of informational tidbits I gleaned by taking this smorgasbord approach. I did sit through Stephen Hughes' rotations in their entirety and found some new ideas in his approach to design. It's rare that I'll sit through an entire rotation when the techniques demonstrated are mostly review for me.
I enjoy learning about design approaches, novel techniques for surface enhancement, and the like more than reviewing basic tool use and such. If a demonstration is based entirely on slides, the speaker needs to be dynamic enough to hold my interest. However, all those first-time attendees need the basics, and novice to intermediate turners probably benefit from the review of techniques they've already learned. I think a lot of experienced turners attend the symposium not so much for the demonstrations, but for the fellowship of being with other turners and to refresh long-distance friendships.
The other thing I've noticed about the different symposia that I've attended, is that I tend to be more engaged in the event where the number of attendees is more limited and the opportunity for interaction among the demonstrators and participants is increased. The Ohio Valley Woodturners Guild puts on a symposium every other year (the next one is this October), and the number of attendees is about
200 people. The symposium takes place on the grounds of a church retreat with all the meals taken together as a group. This really allows for a lot of interaction, and there is more to this learning environment than passively sitting through a series of demonstrations.
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