What kind of sharpening system to buy?

Your best bet would be a slow speed Woodcraft grinder and the Wolverine jig setup. The grinder comes with the proper stones for sharpening and the Wolverine jig is the defacto industry standard. Remember, you'll be sharpening your turning tools several times per hour (in my case, its every 2 minutes or so). If you want an all-in-one sharpening system, the Tormek is the way to go, but you'll find that shrpening your turning tools on it a slow process (but a superior edge).

Peter Teubel Milford, MA

There's grinding, which reshapes your tool, sharpening, which creates an edge, and honing, which refines what a lot of turners consider a "good enough."

Belt sanders can handle all three, with appropriate belts, but are not kind to carbon steels found in chisels, planes and so forth. High speed grinders suffer from a bit of the same problem. A coarse wheel and a careless hand can take a big chunk off of a chisel quickly. Some tradeoff is possible with the "friable" soft bond grinding wheels, where the wheel disappears faster than the steel.

So, if you're going to have just one to do everything, I think it's tough to beat a low-speed setup, which grinds your mower blades with cheap stones, your plane irons and turning tools with more expensive, but still not ridiculously soft, and your carving tools with the softest. You can have both speeds if you get a good mandrel and two pulleys for your motor, but I'm betting you'll stick with slow. Wet or dry? If you think having water around in the shop all the time is fine, get one. I don't, but I still hone my flat edges on the Makita, which does a superb job. Just remember to drain it before you spill it.

As far as jigs go, they give you a repeatable grind, which, if you like to tailor your turning style to your tools, is fine. I have a large number of tools acquired over the years, and they are ground at many angles which allow me many options in the way I cut. The jig is the bevel, which I sharpen as if I were turning, laying the tool on the rest, the heel on the slow stone, and moving the handle until contact is made on the entire bevel, then following it as if I were taking a cut on the lathe.

I don't normally hone turning tools, but when I do, it's with diamond slips/stones which can be used dry.

I agree with Peter. I have a high speed 8" grinder and a Woodcraft 8" slow speed plus a Tormek. The Tormek never gets used with the turning tools. Too much prep and maintenance, plus too slow. In fact, I use the high speed grinder the most because I haven't ever moved my Wolverine setup over to it. I have a couple of homemade setups on the slow speed that mimic some of the Wolverine, but are harder to adjust. So they are fixed for certain grinds. Very fast to sharpen my tools, just turn around from the lathe, flick the switch, tool on the wheel, switch off, back to turning. No water container to clean and keep refilled. Tormek is very nice for an extremely sharp edge, but that's not the most important thing in woodturning.

That's the direction I was heading. Thanks to all then for the suggestions and help.

Mike

And I agree with Rusty. Get a high-speed grinder (I use a 7" Baldor) and the Oneway jig system. Then have someone show you how to use them -- it will save you a lot of time and steel. The slow speed grinder may help at first but as you get better at using it it will become a frustration -- too slow -- and you will not grind when you really should.

Also, for your primary bowl gouges, I like a removable handle which comes off easily. That allows me to turn with a very heavy tool, remove the handle quickly, and grind with just the light gouge so that I can get the feel of what I'm doing.

Tormek is a waste of money for turners, I think. The Oneway balancing kit is a really nice- to-have also.

Another thing, don't buy wheels which are too fine. For most of us, 100 grit is plenty fine. I use a 36 on one side and an 80 on the other. Buy white wheels as a minimum. There are some premium blue wheels which are also very nice to have.

Bill

Woodcraft has a dual speed grinder that will do 1720 and 3450 so I can get the best of both worlds and I like the idea of the Oneway or the Wolverine system.

thanks again to all.

Mike

Ditto to Bill and Rusty.

I uesed a Delta vertical wet wheel for about a year for all my sharpening. I then took a class from John Jordan who showed me the correct way to use a regular 3450 rpm grinder. I bought an 8" JET the next week and a Wolverine system. I drained the pond on the wet wheel and shelved it. I never looked back.

The additional benefit for having the fast wheel is that if you ever go to someone else's shop or do a club demo, you will be ready to grind in the most "difficult" situation - a fast, dry wheel.

As for grinders, Baldor is the standard, but pricy. Deltas can work, but I've seen a number of them that vibrate excessively. You may end up returning them for another or buying a wheel balancing system. For what it is worth, my JET 8" is heavy-rock solid with no vibration. It cost about $175. The 8" Baldor approaches $500.

Joe Fleming - San Diego

------------------------------------------------------

Oneway jig

of time and

using it it will

easily. That

with just the

a really nice-

is plenty fine.

There are

I bought the 7" Baldor from Amazon for $199.00.

Bill

the Oneway jig

lot of time and

using it it will

off easily. That

grind with just the

is a really nice-

grit is plenty fine.

minimum. There are

Ended up buying the dual speed 8" from Woodcraft and the Wolverine jig. The guy at woodcraft was trying to sell me the Tormek but I talked him out of it. :)

Thanks again for all of the advice. Now I can start turning again with sharp chisels!

Mike

My personal feeling is that anybody selling a Tormek to a turner is either not a turner or working on commission. It just isn't appropriate for us. Turning a 1' diameter form at 250 rpm and we are cutting 785'/minute. That glass-like edge may even last several seconds.

I roughed out a sweet gum bowl(not my favorite wood but the log has been taking up space in my garage) and reground at least 6 times because it was quick and easy and I knew that the tool would cut better after it was ground. I'm using the Oneway mastercut gouges, btw.

Bill

I won't belabor folks with the details as anyone who wants them can find them by searching on my name and Tormek, Sharpening, or Grinders. And in a couple of months you will be able to read an extensive comparative article discussing all the principle means of sharpening woodturning tools: HS grinder, LS grinder, Belt Sander, and Tormek. I have the choice of them all, use them all, and find a place for them all in the maintenance of my turning tools.

I will just note that I am a woodturner,have been for a long time, am not on commission nor attempting to sell anything, but my findings based on critical experience with all the many sharpening methods is that the Tormek is one of the very best methods of maintaining the edge of ones turning tools, particularly gouges. I find it gives a meaningfully sharper edge than any tool used straight off a dry grinder, provides for more time between grindings, results in less steel being removed which of course leads to longer tool life, and is safe, easy and predictable to use.

These are not just my findings, but are consistent with the many professional turners who have been very pleased with the Tormek (Steve Russell being a very good example of someone who very rigorously evaluates any tool that he puts to use and lauds the Tormek), or have long advocated that for anything other than roughing out, honing with a fine abrasive should follow dry grinding (Jerry Glaser, Alan Lacer, Rude Osolnick,Bob Stocksdale and Del Stubs is just a short list of the prominent). Some of the folks at the cutting edge of investigating sharpening techniques (Bill Tindall being a good example) have found the superiority of a finely honed edge for woodturning (he uses diamond slurries).

So while folks have every right to be satisfied with whatever level of sharpness that meets their needs and sensibilities, a blanket statement that the Tormek or finely honed edges "just isn't appropriate for us" is simply not supported by the findings and practices of a substantial body of knowledgable and respected turners.

Lyn

Bill Rubenste> My personal feeling is that anybody selling a Tormek to a turner is either not

a turner or

diameter form at 250

several seconds.

taking up space in

knew that the

Just bought a 10" Craftex from busy bee for $195.- Canadian

Heavy and a fair machine fur the price, (keeping my fingers crossed) (G) I hope.

Have fun and take care Leo Van Der Loo

Bill Rubenste> I bought the 7" Baldor from Amazon for $199.00.

Oneway jig

of time and

using it it will

easily. That

grind with just the

a really nice-

is plenty fine.

minimum. There are

Sharp is as sharp does, Mike. Let your shavings guide you, not your grinding jig. Tool presentation is the most important part of removing wood gracefully.

1) "Ride" the toolrest. 2) Meet the piece with the heel of the bevel. 3) Gain the cutting angle by moving the handle of the tool until the desired shaving is produced.

The work should slide on the bevel, not the other way 'round, and a properly cut shaving should fall, not shoot away.

When good people who are good turners disagree re a technique, a tool edge, a descriptive term, or blondes vs redheads, it probably means that there is no clearly superior answer no matter how tenaciously held or expertly promoted.

Sometimes one size doesn't fit all; meaning that there is not a perfect single solution. Probably differing opinions depend upon personal attitudes and competencies.

Politics and religion are probably unimportant in the pathogenesis of these important debates. Genetics, el nino and environmental conditions are iffy, but may occasionally play a small role.

I have no hope that this helps to (en)lighten the load. :) Arch

Fortiter,

Or, more likely, there are multiple superior answers, but which one is superior for YOU depends on what YOU want.

Me, for example, I got a Torkmek with all the accessories. Why would a woodturner want an axe sharpening jig? Because I own an axe, of course. Would all woodturners benefit from an axe sharpening jig? Of course not. But because of my situation and personal needs, the Tormek is the obviously correct choice for ME - I sharpen my own axes, chisels, planes, jointer and planer knives, scissors[1], and turning tools. I have time to put a fine edge on gouges when the job would benefit from it. I have no talent when it comes to free-handing on the grinder. So, a Tormek is perfect for me. My backup is a 6" high speed grinder for rough shaping. Would that be right for everyone? No, it wouldn't.

On the other hand, a year ago at the Craftsmen's Fair, I brought my cheap 6" grinder - well tuned of course - for sharpening at our demo tent. One of the pros from the other tent would show up each day and zip zip zip hand sharpen his gouges for the day. A Tormek would be all wrong for him.

[1] The stylist who does my wife's hair sends her scissors home with her occasionally for me to sharpen, because I do a better job than the pro they used to use ;-)

Sharpening aids & jigs are certainly useful and are employed instead of or to supplement freehand by many turners, experienced as well as neophytes. Mostly for convenience and to easily & precisely reproduce bevelled edges.

I do not believe that some of us are endowed by their creator with an innate ability to sharpen freehand while others are not. I suspect that this is a learned skill not a talent. Else why should I believe, as I do, that almost everyone can learn to turn?

However, re skills, talents and such, I hope Lyn will offer a professional opinion. Arch

Fortiter,

I have been using the Woverine Jig, and the Woodcraft 1750 speed grinder to sharpen my turning gouges for about 4 years. Nashville, Ga.

Geesh! Didn't mean to start a huge discussion here but all great opinions. I've been a woodworker for about 8 years now and have never owned a grinder. I've always used other methods to sharpen my tools (chisels are sharpened using the scary sharp method) and figured it was time to add a grinder, but wanted to wait and see other uses for it until I did. Purchasing the lathe (which is a Jet Mini Lathe I got on Ebay for $80) drove me to make a decision, but with anything else I do before I buy I research.

Someday I might end up getting a Tormek but at this point, I don't know if I'll be a serious or casual turner so the dual speed Woodcraft grinder seemed like the best decision. I did splurge on the Wolverine jig, which is specifically for the turning tools, nothing else I can think of.

But once again the most (I believe) underused piece of the internet (usenet) comes through with flying colors. Thanks again to all for your advice and opinions.

I'll be asking about chucks next! :)

Mike