You could do what I did - get the cheapest grinder you can find (probably a high speed 6") and a set of $32 chinese turning tools, and practice. You'll learn to have a LIGHT hand, which is what you need to keep the tools from losing their temper.
Then, when you get frustrated and splurge on something with jigs and such, you won't feel so bad about spending all that money ;-) (and you'll still have a cheap grinder for rough jobs)
Arch,
I agree that it is a skill to a point. There are people that can run sub 4 miles, but I will never get there despite years of training. In other words, I suppose there are people that have insufficient dexterity to successfully and repeatably freehand grind. I also think this number is very small.
On the flip side, you can make terrible grinds with a jig too. The jig is not a cure-all, just a help. The most important thing for successful grinding is knowing what a correctly ground edge is shaped like and when you don't have it.
Joe FLeming - San Diego ======================================
Well, you captured me on this one.
Actually, its an interesting question.
First, I have no doubt that almost any good jigging system will offer more consistent repeatability of grind than hand honing. The issue here is how precise is necessary and desirable. With regards to the necessary part, well, anyone who has looked at some of the gouges Richard Raffan has ground will know that in the hands of a skilled turner (and perhaps a lot of lesser turners as well) one can have multiple irregular facets and do just fine. As for desirable, I remain convinced that jigging systems will allow the least steel to be removed to obtain an effective new edge. So if tool life is a big deal (and with the price of some of the exotic alloy gouges, it is), then choosing a system that will prolong tool life is desirable.
But more to your point, are their reasons to assume that some turners will have less physical ability to free hand sharpen than others, and I think this is an unequivocal yes. However, the very things that would detract from one's ability to sharpen would dertract from one's ability to obtain good gouge cuts. Still making turnings can involve more than sensitive use of a gouge or skew (40 grit sandpaper can do wonders) while minus a jig, their are fewer alternatives with sharpening.
So what might interfere with hand held sharpening. Well three come immediatly to mind: 1, reduced fine motor coordination; 2, reduced tactile/proprioceptive feedback; 3, poor visual acuity and reduced contrast sensitivity. All of these circumstances are not that uncommon in folks as they get older, particularly if they are diabetic and have developed a bit of peripheral neuropathy. Of course there is just natural variation in eye-hand coordination, regardless of age. I know you know these things, but I rose to your bait because I do think the point is significant. Anyone who follows sports, among other things, knows there are is a range of natural abilities, and that some will be able to accomplish things even the most motivated of others cannot. There is no reason to assume that the skills involved in unassisted precision sharpening are any less vulnerable to natural variation than any other activity requiring manual skills.
Lyn
Arch wrote:
Or any less effective, especially as you can gain assistance by using the tool as its own "jig" when sharpening or honing. Follow the existing grind by laying it on the wheel heel first, and raising to the edge. Slow speed and fine wheels seem capable of renewing the edge in a single pass, or at best a full R to L and L to R. Think of it as a powered hone.
Of course, there's always the problem of bi or trifocal lines for us old fellows.
First, Mike thanks for starting a good thread. I hope you didn't mind the detour too much. Second, thanks Lyn for another informative essay. (it was truly requested, not baited) Third, thanks everyone for making rcw an inclusive forum with room for independent ideas.
Fourth, :( I hope to see you all after Jeanne hits us head on Sat. nite. :( Arch
Fortiter,
One thing is that when cutting with a gouge you use full body motions without significantly rotating the tool.
Sharpening involves more hand movement and rotation of the tool, making it more difficult.
Y'think? I sharpen as I cut, personally, with a fixed point on the grinder rest and movement of a gouge handle pretty much equating (lead half) to how I set a cut on the convex work surface, with a opposite follow-through equating to how I set a cut on a concave surface for the trailing half. Those sharpening with a bevel self-jig should not move that anchor hand, but keep it as the fulcrum for body or hand movements of greater degree on the long side of the lever which correspond to minor movement on the short side. In short, pretty much as if you were turning the stone.
Did I mention that the center of my grinder is at the same height as the center on the lathe?
========================= Arch, What are y'all using as hurricane bait this year? And does it work as well on bream as it does on the storms??
Ken
Hi Folks,
If you have both a system and a jig which allows quick "brainless" sharpening, you are then more likely to improve your turning since you will sharpen as soon as you think you need it rather than waiting for a good time!
I am able to sharpen a parting tool and 2 gouges in around 2 minutes time and resharpen a single gouge in less than 30 seconds with the Big Tree Tools sharpening system (belt sander) and the Packard bowl gouge jig.
My turning has improved immensely since I purchased these items.
George
George,
No doubt, jigs help a turner get and repeat a good edge for their tools. My point, however, is that you can still "screw it up" even with a jig if you don't learn the fundamentals of grinding and tool geometry.
Please allow me to turn up the contrast a bit. On most bowl gouge jigs, the tool is held in the correct position as it is swept across the grinder or belt sander. If, however, while the tool is still in the jig, you were to simply place the nose of your tool against the belt/wheel and leave it there for an extended length of time, you will seriously alter the geometry for the worse. While turners won't do that, over time the sweeping motion that you use could have you taking progressively more metal from the nose than from the wings. Over time, you may end up with a nose ground too much even with the jig. This is why a turner needs to understand the basic shape that is desired so that they can correct their use of the jig when needed.
Joe ======================================
I agree with Lyn as long as you assume that the turner knows how to sharpen in the first place. You may not have the dexterity to sharpen (and all that other stuff Lyn said), but you must know what a correct edge is like for your tool. Jigs, fine motor skills, e\X-ray vision and everything else can't make up for a lack of knowledge adout what a correctly-ground gouge should look like.
Joe Fleming =========================================
Hi Joe, I am making the assumption that the turner will select a basic shape that they think will work for them. I found that once I was able to continuously return to that shape, I really began to experience improvements in "predictive turning". To me that is the essence of "fast brainless jig sharpening". Works for me, but others may find different approaches more satisfying. George
InspirePoint website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.