Bowl turning question - scraper or gouge?

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I'm starting to try my hand at small faceplate cups or bowls - nothing over  
4" diameter and 3" deep yet.

Having a problem getting a smooth finish on the interior of the bowl. Don't  
have the hang of getting a smooth cut on the inside walls with a gouge so I  
use various round scrapers. This gives me some rough areas where there is  
end grain. Can't seem to simply sand it out. Do I just need more practice or  
is there something I've missed.

Mainly using claro walnut burl, maple and even some pine test pieces - same  
result - rough spots on the inner and sometimes outer walls where there is  
end grain. I buy the waxed blanks from various places and the wood is  
usually from damp to wet, if that makes any difference.

Thanx,

Vic




--  
There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who  
don't  


Re: Bowl turning question - scraper or gouge?
On 01/05/2012 09:35 AM, Vic Baron wrote:
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Best bet is to learn to use a gouge more effectively.  I know, not much  
help, sorry.  Scrapers tend to tear out so getting a clean cut is  
harder.  Try doing a shear scrape rather than a regular scrape, that may  
help.

Use a freshly sharpened tool.

Run the lathe as fast as safely possible, and cut very very slowly.

When sanding, wipe the area with tear out with paste wax, then sand.

--  
Kevin Miller
Juneau, Alaska
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Re: Bowl turning question - scraper or gouge?


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Thanx Kevin - will work on it!

Vic  


Re: Bowl turning question - scraper or gouge?
On 1/5/2012 11:13 AM, Kevin Miller wrote:
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all Kevin said.
Hold scraper at about 45 deg to 60 deg angle with the leading edge (near  
center of bowl) raised up off the rest.  make sure it's razor sharp.

with gouge, make a smooth sweeping cut from bottom to top, very sharp  
gouge.  You can invert the gouge and use as a shear scraper and clean up  
tear out, but if you are not really really careful, you will get a catch  
that you will remember for a long time because you are not rubbing the  
bevel or anything.

Re: Bowl turning question - scraper or gouge?


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Bottom to top - you mean center to rim?

When I hollow the bowl I always work toward the center, scooping more each  
time. So you are saying that the smoothing cuts be made in the reverse  
direction?

Trying to get my head around this.

Thanx!

Vic  


Re: Bowl turning question - scraper or gouge?


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  Me, I always say you need to cut with supported wood. The "rule" is  
down hill. The problem is, down hill is sometimes "up"

  Think about how the grain is presented to the tool, if the wood you  
are cutting is supported by the wood about to be cut, you are cutting on  
supported wood.

   Which means, on the inside, cutting from the rim to the center.  

  I'm betting your problem is you are falling off the bevel of the  
gouge, when you reach the bottom of the bowl. This is NOT unusual  

  If you have PBS-Create watch tonight's (8PM Eastern and Pacific) of  
Woodturning Workshop. (repeat Friday at 2AM). Stuart Batty mentions  
needing a steeper gouge for the bottom

  Back to the original question. The answer is YES, which ever works for  
you. I know serious production turners that only use scrappers and can  
turn out a bowl faster then you want to think about.  I also know  
production turners that turn out a bowl without ever touching anything  
but a bowl gouge. But then I also know turners that use only Hook  
chisels and are just as fast.

--  
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
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Re: Bowl turning question - scraper or gouge?
On 1/5/2012 4:30 PM, Ralph E Lindberg wrote:
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what Ralph says is correct, however, I find that a shearing cut from the  
bottom to the edge is a good way to smooth out ripples and tear out -  
this is not a ride the bevel cut, the U of the gouge faces the wood, the  
bottom edge (fingernail grind) is shear scraping, and you are using VERY  
light pressure.

Re: Bowl turning question - scraper or gouge?


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So would this be what is sometimes described in the books as a "pull" cut?

  


Re: Bowl turning question - scraper or gouge?
On 1/6/2012 8:20 AM, Vic Baron wrote:
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geez - I don't know - maybe - it is a scraping cut, like using a  
straight edge to shave and with a sharp tool you should get little wispy  
shavings floating off the tool - it is really a finishing cut that is  
useful to clean up ripples and tear out - I use that cut more on the  
outside though, it's easier to get the right angles - if you were  
nearby, I'd just show you

Re: Bowl turning question - scraper or gouge?


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Not what I call a pull cut......

--  
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
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Re: Bowl turning question - scraper or gouge?
Vic Baron wrote:

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Vic, as everyone else has said, "The gouge needs to be sharp."  That does  
not mean you need to be able to shave with it or that the little microbes go  
"eak, eak" when you breathe on it.  But it needs to feel sharp when you run  
your finger across it.

I have found using the gouge inverted to a 120degree angle and making light  
scrapes with it, will clean a lot of the tear out up.  Then there is always  
shellac, thin CA glue, wax (which I have not used, or even thought of - will  
have to give it a try) or MinWax Woodhardner to stablize the grain, IF the  
tearout is really bad or the wood is punky.  Baring that, get your gouge  
work down and practice taking really light cuts to finish.

Also, you may have tons of claro lying around, but I am cheap (married a  
"down-easter Scot) and have found that pine 1x's, glued up into a stack,  
with the grain alternating direction (each 90degrees to the one below it)  
makes a real good, and cheap practice piece.

Deb

Re: Bowl turning question - scraper or gouge?


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LOL! I understand. I do the same with the pine but every now and then I want  
to try something pretty so I'll buy a chunk of claro and turn away. I still  
have lots of pine blanks that I'll be working on. I'll have to try that  
scraping with the gouge.

As to sharp -  my regular wood chisels I can shave with, literally, but the  
turning tools aren't that bad. I'm getting the feel of being able to tell  
when I've lost the edge on a tool and am pushing harder for the same cut.  
I'm also getting pretty good at touching them up on the grinder and a quick  
hone and back to work. I'm getting better with the "feel" of the gouge on  
the work but that's where I need to work on a lighter touch. I'm still  
clutching the gouge expecting a catch that will rip it from my poor tired  
fingers.  :)  Need to lighten up a bit but remain firm. Working on it.

Thanx for the guidance!

Vic  


Re: Bowl turning question - scraper or gouge?
On 1/5/2012 3:41 PM, Vic Baron wrote:
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soren berger does a great demo with a HUGE roughing gouge on the outside  
of some random piece of wood - he holds it with one finger and lays a  
long continuous ribbon of wood onto whomever he wants sitting in the  
front row of the audience.  The point he is making is that it is  
control, not brute force that does the work.

Re: Bowl turning question - scraper or gouge?


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Vic,  

When you are going to use your bowl gouge to scrape with, sharpen it on  
a 100 or 120 grit wheel, but do NOT hone it. When used as a scraper, the  
burr does the actual cutting.

Re: Bowl turning question - scraper or gouge?
Vic Baron wrote:

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BTW, there is a REASON sharpening jigs are so popular with bowl turners.  If  
you do not have one, Woodcraft has their slow speed 8" grinder on sale and a  
"Wolverine" style jig coupled with that pays for itself rather quickly.

I hand sharpened for a few years, thinking I could do a job that was "good  
enough."  The truth is, I did not do a bad job at all.  Then I got the  
grinder and jig and wondered why I had waited soooo long.

Just a thought.

Deb

Re: Bowl turning question - scraper or gouge?


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Bought a Delta variable speed grinder and the Ellsworth jig from captain  
Eddie. Also adapted a few jigs I had around. That part I have covered -  
technique I am learning!  :)
  


Re: Bowl turning question - scraper or gouge?
wrote:

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I am a relative novice at turning.  I have somewhat mastered the
scraper and sanding block.  Maple end grain is ugly.  But what I have
found to tame it is a goose neck card scraper.  I can take off inch
long by .002" shavings.  If it is really bad I sand with 36 grit
sandpaper at slow speed and use the card scraper to remove the grooves
left by the sandpaper.  I seem to have no problem with the spalted
maple.  The other solution is segmented turning.

Ray
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Re: Bowl turning question - scraper or gouge?
Someone once told me that if you learn to ski on your own you'll end up  
practicing your mistakes.  I think the same applies to wood turning.

The real answer to learning to turn using the various tools is to take a  
course from someone knows what they are doing.  I was very fortunate to have  
the late Joe Basha of Pasadena as my mentor.  He was patient, always  
emphasizing safety and there was no rushing into something. We listened. we  
learned, we practiced and all the time that wonderfull guy was there to  
help - even outside the class hours.  No one went right into Level 11.  You  
had to do level 1 with him first - and I learned why after doing level 11  
(which I waited three years for).  It was a progression and I'm still  
learning.

In the end the tutoring from Joe paid off.  It was worth every cent.

BTW - Plenty of good videos on You Tube on turning/sharpening etc/how to -  
etc.  Take a look.


Keith P.
Corner Brook  



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