Making a living wage?

I appreciate everyone's concern about my jewelry business. It seems that a few people are curious about what I do so I'll explain it briefly. I do make all of the jewelry myself. This is sort of an investment for me to continue to make jewelry. I'm in it to make jewelry and of course to make money from selling the jewelry, but the jewelry making part is more important to me or I would probably sell for more. The most exciting part of what I do for me is making the jewelry, taking the pictures, and then listing the items. I love ebay and it is a thrill for me just to see bids on my items.

By selling for more money though, I feel that my number of sales would drop (because a good part of my sales is from return customers who know my prices) and I would probably be making about the same amount of money, but not as much jewelry, so the balance of what I have going on now is perfect for me. It keeps me busy and pays the bills, and I don't need to be greedy because I know what my time and materials are worth and feel that I am making enough to cover both and still make a nice profit. Believe it or not I do make a profit! I am now netting about a full time wage so I am able to pay my bills, buy lots of beads, and still have money to spend in moderation. This is my only source of income while I am in school full time, but I think it will continue to be as long as I can keep making jewelry! I am a bronze level power seller and I'm very close to stepping up to the next level if that gives some sort of an idea of how much money I make on ebay.

Lately I have been kicking around the idea of raising my prices a little bit, maybe 50 cents to $1 on some of the items, and I think this thread has made my mind up to go ahead and do that. It seems that most, if not all of the people who responded to the thread thought my prices were too low, or at least that's the impression that I got, so maybe I am undercutting myself. I've never thought of it that way, but I have been selling my items at one price for so long that maybe it is time to up it a little. I appreciate everyone's comments, and do want to thank the one person that contacted me about this thread. If not for that person I would have never known that people were discussing my business. Anyone who had questions could have asked, and Dr. Sooz can confirm that I gave an honest answer as to why I practice business they way I do.

I just love to make jewelry!

Thanks and I hope to be a welcomed member to the forum in the future because there is a lot I can learn from everyone's comments. I welcome the discussion.

Kim

PS - If anyone would like to email me, please use this address: snipped-for-privacy@mchsi.com. I had to use a hotmail address because google wouldn't recognize MCHSI as an ISP.

Uh oh.....see, in an indirect way, you just called most of us greedy. ~~ Sooz

------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links

Welcome, Kim. Hang out and get a feel for the group and jump in when you feel comfortable. It's always good to have people to bounce ideas off of. I am a beginner, very much so, but have been experimenting, finding my niche lately. It's important to find it, then be flexible with it, at least, that's what I've learned from the people here. They're a great bunch. I've learned SO much, and just keep right on learning. Anyway, now that I've rambled on...I look forward to getting to know you and seeing more of your stuff.

I think the most concern was that you're undercutting the competition (other jewelry makers) by too great a margin.

If a jewelry maker/seller prices their pieces too low, it makes other jewelry makers look like they're pricing way too high. Do you see what I mean?

Those of us who need to make a living wage from our handmade jewelry look like we're robbing our customers if someone else is pricing too low. You have to be aware of what the market price for items is, or you can drag down the entire field.

In other words, people will buy your jewelry, then look at Madge X's work, and say, "Oh my god! Madge X *is* greedy!" It can hurt the entire field of handmade jewelry. It can hurt your sisters who make jewelry.

You wouldn't be greedy to charge more. Another issue, too, is that if you wanted to raise your prices (like you're considering now), you may have a problem with your return customers.

Here's a good pricing formula you may want to read and think about (from Bead Notes:

PRICING FORMULA How much did the materials cost ($M), and how long did it take to make (T)? What do you consider a "decent wage"(T x $/hour)?

$M + (T x $/h)= base cost base cost x "overhead %"= minimum price

Add to this any fees, commissions, etc.

If the materials cost $10, and it took an hour (for simplicity's sake) of time worth $10/h, then your base cost would be $20; overhead would be at least 10%. So the minimum price should be $22 for the person who buys it off your neck, or the store which BUYS it for inventory. Online, auction fees, PayPal/credit card fees, etc. added would mean your "minimum bid" price should be about $25, unless this is to be a loss leader. If you will be paying a commission on the sale, add that to the minimum sale price.

AN ALTERNATIVE APPROACH: My *ideal* method is to add up the cost of my materials and the hourly rate for assembly (what you'd pay someone else to do it, which is probably your $10 @ hour figure), and double it. The rationale for this is the same as in retail: If you can't make 100% profit on an item, you probably shouldn't bother selling it.

If you can sell items with the above formula, you could theoretically hire someone to assemble for you. Then if there were design time, I try to add a 15% profit over that. Sometimes this needs to be adjusted downward for the situation (when you compare your price/merchandise to the other stuff on the site, for instance. Or if the materials' cost for an item is especially high, I'll sell them at cost to make the item more affordable). ~Tante Lina ~~ Sooz

------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links

Welcome, Kim -- hope you stay and join us in our discussions! It's safe to say everyone here is richer for having discovered RCB, and participated in our discussions.

Here are the basics:

~ If you're going to advertise your stuff, that's fine -- just put the word AD in the subject line. This is so people who don't want to read ads here can killfile that and avoid it.

~ Same goes for off topic posting.....If it's off topic, put OT in the subject line. Some folks come here only for bead talk and nothing else. They shouldn't have to read our off topic blather (though many of us love it).

~ Here are some sources we use a lot:

Dr. Sooz's Links List -- beady links.

Bead Notes: Beading information A through Z ~ Most people's websites are in their siglines, but if you want to browse them all in one place, Valerie has them here: RCB Website Links ~~ Sooz

------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links

I just knew that by talking about someone here it would get back to her!! Hi and welcome to the group, Kim! :)

Yes, that's a point. My partner sells bumper stickers, and just recently raised his selling price for the first time in over 5 years. No matter how good your profit margin is, sooner or later inflation is going to push you into raising your prices to keep up. If you announce the price change and attribute it to the rising cost of materials (and have you noticed how *much* sterling has gone up just recently?!), I don't think it will hurt your sales.

In any case, welcome to r.c.b.!

Celine

I thought silver had gone up...whew, now i don't feel like i'm losing my mind.

Hi Cathy, that's how I feel too. Every year older I get, my possessions increase, and I don't have enough room in my house to store things, or in my mind to deal with lots of "stuff". I just have no interest in having more of the ordinary. Even at a good price.

Tina

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My pricing formula is a little different. But I find when the numbers are crunched the different methods all come pretty close.

The one thing I like to point out is that you need to be aware of pricing for wholesale or for retail. If you are covering all your costs and making an adequate wage, I consider it a wholesale price because it's what you'd sell your product for if you sold to a store. A price you wouldn't discount. To me that's wholesale, no matter who you sell to. And in retail, wholesale is half of the selling price. On the other hand, selling to the final customer is retail. So basicly, you're selling retail at wholesale prices, if you're selling for your lowest price.

And that's OK, but can bring up other problems later. Like if a store wants to buy a lot but wants a discount. Or if you want to raise prices. Or if you want to sell in the same market as the store you sell to and can't undersell your customer (the store).

Tina

Hi Kim,

Glad you're here.

I think the concern about your prices comes from two sides at once. Stating the obvious, we as jewelry makers worry that this will effect the percieved value of what we do. And we are people here who value our art, but most of us aren't hung up on making big bucks.

And we are concerned for you, because we've seen this sort of pricing lead to conflict and to burn out. And especially with restricting what you do next. When you sell to so many people, it gets really hard to make changes.

In response to Sooz I mentioned some problems regarding pricing as wholesale or retail. Including raising your prices.

And yes, I do think your prices are low. Your work is also less interesting than what I would look for, and probably less interesting than what you'd prefer doing. (No offense, I'm jst not your target market). And, the low pricing also can have the effect of giving the appearance of you selling cheap for cheap. Often higher prices sell MORE not less.

But there would probably be repercussions now to raising your established prices. So let me make a suggestion. Come out with a new variation at a higher price.

Tina

Undercutting yourself is an understatement of magnitude! Would you take a job where you made 2/hr? I don't think so. Not even if you really, really liked it. No matter how much you enjoy what you do, your time is still valuable, get paid for it. If you changed the $5/rings to six or seven dollars, I don't think you would lose one customer in 10. Which would still put you ahead. Go for it. Barbara Dream Master

If you want to make God laugh, tell him your future plans. Woody Allen

I apologize about using the word "greedy," I definitely didn't mean to imply that anyone was being greedy in any way! I think that prices reflect quality and I have seen nothing but great quality items from the few sites I've checked out of the other posters. I just LOVE lampwork beads! I didn't see that anyone else was selling wire rings, and I don't know what the "standard" of pricing is for these rings, so I can't tell if I'm undercutting anybody else or not. Likewise, what is the standard for simple liquid silver jewelry? Or silver link with nothing fancy added? I think that most of the people on the board are more advanced than I am, and I think I just don't have the confidence in my skill level yet to charge what I've seen others sell for (as far as pendants go).

I didn't mean to step on anyone's feet though, if someone else is selling wire rings for more money I would love to know what they are getting for them.

Thanks, Kim