I'm sorry to need to say it, Tina. I have very strong feelings against mongers of hatred and weapons. I was taught in school as a child that it was a bad tactical error to supply one's enemies with weapons. It also used to be considered high treason, and an executable offense. Now its just Business. Sarajane
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because to be informed is to be prepared. I like to know what I'm dealing with. I watch the delivery and the room more than listen to the words--I can read them later. Sarajane
Sarajane's Polymer Clay Gallery
I saw some of the returns on that investment come back, and some not, and I don't think it was a very good deal, all in all.
Sarajane
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Oh Vicki, I soooo agree! I'm seeing how Mike is getting shafted by the very government he put his life on the line for (25 years' service) and it infuriates me. He was promised free healthcare for life. Now he's stuck with a crappy HMO that makes you jump through hoops for even the simplest of care, PLUS he has to pay for part of it. Now I realize that's true for many folks still lucky to have insurance and the principle of co-pays and co-supported benefits doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the "oh, we changed our mind" attitude. This is NOT what he was promised!
And then there's retirement. Civilians probably don't realize this but retirement pay isn't all that much (he gets roughly $1400 a month AFTER taxes). In addition, once he starts taking social security, which he EARNED by working after he retired, he will lose 50 cents of every dollar of what he's getting from SS deducted from his Navy retirement. Seems like a lousy deal after he slogged through swamps and got shot at in Vietnam. (He has a bronze star and 2 purple hearts for his efforts, and he wasn't drafted, he'd enlisted in '56.)
It's very easy to sit back and judge when you're a civilian. I know I've had MY eyes opened considerably, and they'd already been open a peep or two many years ago. I had dear friends in the Army band, stationed at Ft. Dix NJ. The housing conditions were appalling...had they been civvie, they'd have been condemned. I had a friend (married to a staff sergeant) who had to go on food stamps and WIC when she was pregnant. She was NOT slacking, they simply couldn't make ends meet for the simplest of things. Enlisted pay is incredibly substandard for anyone who's not single and living in barracks.
I also have to take issue with the generalization Tina made about military personnel not being able to organize or make plans. That's so far from truth! Just about everyone but the lowest buck privates is responsible for other people below them. Mike was in some sort of "commanding others" position from the time he was 19 onward. He's one of the most organized and detail-oriented people I've ever met (sometimes he drives me nuts!). And he's not the only one, not by a longshot.
And one more thing. About "double dipping." If someone retires after 25 years' service in a civilian job, they'd get a pension if they worked for a decent company. (Of course, those are few and far between these days, especially those that haven't stolen from their own employees's retirement funds, but they DO exist.) Now, say they started on the ground floor, at age
20 or so. That means they could retire at age 45 and still be vested. But you can't collect until you're 65 on most plans (including SS, which is now 65+). So exactly what should you do for the next 20 years? Obvious solution, go to work for someone else. You work for another 20+ years and get vested again, gods willing. Should you not be rewarded for your service to your employer? It seems perfectly fair to me.KarenK
That's the other half of the equation, the old Country Joe and the Fish song, a line of which is "be the first one on your block to have your boy come home in a box".
Barbara Dream Master
If you want to make God laugh, tell him your future plans. Woody Allen
Barbara I hear you. My Grandpa joined the Marines when he was 17, was a Leatherneck and got sent to France and stayed there till WW1 was over--that war to end all wars. Well, it didn't, and he came back but the nightmares came back with him. He did some time in a VA hospital later for depression, but mostly they had little money and lots of guys....the benefits HE was promised when he joined and served didn't exactly come through either. By the time he was old, they had changed things so that he would have had to divorce my Grandma in order to qualify for any further health care. "Luckily" for the system, she died first, saving lots of paper work and further funding, and he did not long survive her. Sarajane
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vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Karen_AZ" :
]It seems perfectly fair to me.
me, too. and that was BEFORE Jamie enlisted. i've always felt that way.
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Barbara Otterson :
]he was replaced by 2 23 yr olds at his ]job. Not because he wasn't doing his job--he was at 105% of ]quota, but because he was accumulating too many pension ]benefits and the program had been restructured for new-hires.
and that is being done more and more. and it disgusts me!
Barbara, give your hubby a big hug and thank you from me, would you?
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
I think that was the point -- since the poster was aimed at the fat cats and politicians whose sons *didn't* have to go to war.
Celine
The government nowadays seems to be operating on the principle that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." First off, that's not always true; secondly, even if it's true now, there's no guarantee that it will *continue* to be true; but they don't stop to think about those things.
Celine
Karen, the thing that frustrates me the most is having the men military men who need health benefits the most be unable to get them. Especially since the more serious medical conditions are so often a result of their service. And the VA seems to have some standards that I simply cannot understand. Some of their medical treatment is incredibly bad, but they are very good, maybe too good, at giving out drugs.
And I agree that one of the worst things about the government is its broken promises.
The thing about people getting out of the service and having trouble adjusting to civilian obligations is something that was presented here in Fairbanks as a community problem. I'm not faulting the men, but I am faulting the the military hierarchical system. That same heirarchical system, includes a sort of might and pull makes right mindset that results in the military, like the police, having a tremendously higher portion of domestic violence and spousal abuse than the rest of the population.
This sort of information tells me that though some people do well, there is something very wrong that the miltary is doing to their men.
I know people in Alaska getting several separate retirement incomes from the gov't. They'll do 20 years with the military, get first crack at a job, eg, in FAA. They retain some seniority and get a second full retirement after 8 or 10 years, then go to work (with priority hiring, and retained benifits) for another 5 years for a third full retirement. I don't think that's right, and I don't like paying for it.
And I think Mike is wonderful.
Tina
And while we're talking politics, we have a new sticker available at
Celine
Of course, even then you could buy your way out of the draft.
Tina
That was supposed to be "poor ravaged men".
Tina
I like it!
Tina
It breaks my heart to see my beautiful country at a point where a politician can tell lies that lead to the deaths of our soldiers, and
*get away with it*. I consider myself a very patriotic person, and to me this is the most sorrowful depth of corruption possible. America the Beautiful where we have turned over all our freedoms, and the President kills our brothers and sisters with lies.-Kalera
Kandice Seeber wrote:
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