VERY OT: This s*cks (Rant enclosed)

If you're only talking about veterans, you may be right. If that was intended as a general statement, it frequently isn't. I got a HUGE discount on my physical therapy after the broken wrist and shoulder surgery because I was self-paying. It still wasn't cheap, but it was a lot less than they'd have charged my insurance if I'd had any. My advice is, if you're in that kind of situation, ASK. The worst they can say is no.

Celine

I can't agree more... and yet we are now one of the most highly-taxed populations in the world, if you count government "fees".

-Kalera

vj wrote:

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Kalera Stratton :

]I can't agree more... and yet we are now one of the most highly-taxed ]populations in the world, if you count government "fees".

i don't doubt that one!

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

(Jewelry) newest creations: ----------- The measure of the menace of a man is not what hardware he carries, but what ideas he believes.-- Jeff Jordan

The problem is that these two things are non-related, since the taxes and fees you pay to the government have nothing to do with health care. You're paying for medical services IN ADDITION TO all your taxes.

Celine

Yes, I know... it's just another one of those "so what are we getting out of this?" moments. Remember when all the argumens against national health care were based on "Yes, that country has a successful system, but look at all the taxes they pay!"?

That argument can't be used for diddly anymore, because look at all the taxes *we* pay... and for what? More "administrators" and richer politicians.

Shit, I'd be a Libertarian if I didn't dislike Ayn Rand so much.

-Kalera

Lee S. Bill> >

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from snipped-for-privacy@mindCHEMISEspring.com (Lee S. Billings) :

]The problem is that these two things are non-related, since the taxes and fees ]you pay to the government have nothing to do with health care. You're paying ]for medical services IN ADDITION TO all your taxes.

oh, yes. i understand that.

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

(Jewelry) newest creations: ----------- The measure of the menace of a man is not what hardware he carries, but what ideas he believes.-- Jeff Jordan

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Kalera Stratton :

]Shit, I'd be a Libertarian if I didn't dislike Ayn Rand so much.

well, you can be a small "l" libertarian, with me!

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

(Jewelry) newest creations: ----------- The measure of the menace of a man is not what hardware he carries, but what ideas he believes.-- Jeff Jordan

Okay, since I apparently don't work as a Democrat, a Republican, or a Socialist.

I'm a combo libertarian socialist.

-Kalera

vj wrote:

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Kalera Stratton :

]I'm a combo libertarian socialist.

**grin** i come out a "left/libertarian" on the test.

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

(Jewelry) newest creations: ----------- The measure of the menace of a man is not what hardware he carries, but what ideas he believes.-- Jeff Jordan

Ah, now I see where you were going with that argument. Yes, indeed.

And I'd be one if I hadn't had enough exposure to people who were to figure out that the inmates are running the asylum in that party. I agree with them that we have too much governmental overstructure -- but beyond that it all falls apart, as (1) we profoundly disagree about how MUCH too much there is -- and

*why* a lot of these things came about in the first place -- and (2) they consistently want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

And they want to do it *all at once*, which is STUPID. I have a button which says, "Excess government is like excess weight. You don't get it overnight, and you don't get rid of it that way either."

Celine

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from snipped-for-privacy@mindCHEMISEspring.com (Lee S. Billings) :

]the inmates are running the asylum in that party. I agree with them that ]we have too much governmental overstructure -- but beyond that it all falls ]apart, as (1) we profoundly disagree about how MUCH too much there is -- and ]*why* a lot of these things came about in the first place -- and (2) they ]consistently want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

LOL. agreed! my friend Jane feels the same way. she's always very careful to disassociate herself with the "Party".

]And they want to do it *all at once*, which is STUPID. I have a button which ]says, "Excess government is like excess weight. You don't get it overnight, and ]you don't get rid of it that way either."

cool!

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

(Jewelry) newest creations: ----------- The measure of the menace of a man is not what hardware he carries, but what ideas he believes.-- Jeff Jordan

Tee hee, I come out rather extreme libertarian. The really funny thing is, so does Mike. Who'd have guessed THAT?

KarenK (still lobbying for that "no" vote option)

don't get it overnight, and you don't get rid of it that way either." <

Ohhhh I want one!!!!!

KarenK

vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Karen_AZ" :

]KarenK (still lobbying for that "no" vote option)

my dad kept trying to get one of us to change our name to:

none ofthe above and run for office.

----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)

(Jewelry) newest creations: ----------- The measure of the menace of a man is not what hardware he carries, but what ideas he believes.-- Jeff Jordan

hahaha!!!! oh, I do like that!!! Sarajane

Sarajane's Polymer Clay Gallery

E-mail me. It can be arranged.

Celine (p&e)

If you are careful in what you buy, they can't do that. I made sure to buy a plan that couldn't change my rates unless everyone in my plan has their rate changed. Now I'm chronically ill. My rate only goes up every five years as my age bracket changes. And when everyone else gets the same increase each year. I've had to raise my deductible, but I can still make the payments. Buy carefully when you're young and healthy and you'll reap the benefits when you're no longer either. Barbara Dream Master

If you want to make God laugh, tell him your future plans. Woody Allen

What company are you with? We're with Blue Cross/Blue Sheild and happy so far, but always willing to look at other options.

-Kalera

Barbara Otters> >

As an ex-federal employee under the civil service retirement system, I am going to weigh in on the "double-dipping" issue. I don't think you really know about how civil service retirement worked. I paid a percentage of my wages into the retirement fund, just as an employee of a private firm pays into their pension fund. The percentage was fixed and participation was not voluntary. Under civil service, you can be vested in the retirement plan after 5 years (with severely reduced benefits), this is also standard in private industry. With the exception of full military retirement, if you move from one federal agency to another, you do not receive multiple benefits, your retirement moves with you. I know because I transferred from the IRS to the Post Office. You do not receive full benefits until you have 30 years service and are at least 55. You cannot retire and receive benefits from civilian service at 55 unless you have 30 years in, if you have less than 30 years in you must wait until you are 65 to receive a check. You can retire and start receiving checks immediately from the military after 20 years (I don't know about an age requirement). But if you have less than 20 years military service, your retirement moves with you into civilian federal service. I knew several people who were in the military, did not stay a full 20 years. They got out, drew out their retirement and some time later went to work for a federal civilian agency. In order for their military time to be counted towards their retirement, they had to pay back into the system the amount they drew out plus interest. I have also worked in the private sector and paid into the Social Security system for which I will receive next to nothing because I have been a federal employee. Thanks to politicians misinforming the public about the nature of the civil service retirement system. So let's compare that to private sector. You work 5 years each for 8 different companies. You are vested in 8 different retirement plans, plus Social Security. The additional costs of covering those retirement checks are paid from revenues received by the companies. Where do those revenues come from? The people who buy their goods and services, in other words, YOU!! You pay for retirement benefits that exceed employee contributions regardless of whether it is public or private sector. And since this is an expense to the company, the company charges you a markup on that expense so you pay in more to the company than it pays out in benefits. Now of course, civil service retirement no longer exists. People hired into federal jobs after October 1983 are under the Federal Employee retirement System (FERS) which is a cheesy 401(k) type of thing. I got in under civil service the last week it was possible to do so, without any veteran preference (thank you very much).