OFF TOPIC - pierced ears

A friend who lived in Spain had a general factotum around the house called Jesus. One would be welcomed in his house and when sat down he would say "Jesus will bring you a drink, what would you like?" it always seemed rather droll.

I too live in Canada and have to agree with a lot of what you're saying. The same goes for what we allow. Our R.C.M.P. can wear turbans, as can constuction workers. There's a girl playing some sport now and she's been allowed to keep her muslim headdress on even though it's dangerous to her own safety. There's nothing religious about our sports, nor our police force or construction sites. Yet we have to change our own dress code to accomodate the newcomers. But then, as you say Jim, we ARE Muslim ruled Canada.

Maureen

Jim didn't say that, lucretia did. Hard to imagine how the rest of you let 2.5% of the population rule if that's not what you want. Hard to fathom why you even notice what they do, frankly.

I'm not sure I understand how a scarf is dangerous to a girl's safetey when playing sports, especially if she keeps the ends tucked into her shirt.

Elizabeth

People will put words in my mouth. We are NOT Muslim ruled Canada. We have just about every country in the world, and they all contribute to a better, and more diversified Canada. I have no objections to Muslims wearing whatever they like and worshiping anyhow they want. What scares me are Muslim terrorists playing havoc in Canada. If the Muslim community can convince the Commissioner of the RCMP that there is NO terrorist threat to Canada, I will cease to be scared. While there is the threat of a Muslim terrorist attack in Canada, I will continue to be vigilant. And ANY community that comes to live her in Canada, MUST respect and obey Canadian law, even when their culture finds this difficult. I will always believe that Canadian values will, in the end, win over the values of those who choose to live here. The problem is how much damage may be done before this happens.

Maureen Miller wrote:

I think I sorted the accreditation out now lol

She is a soccer playing girl and the rules are not really specific, other than saying things about wearing jewelry etc that could damage other players. She was sent off the field by a ref who I felt had an agenda that reached further than for her safety on the field. It's sorted out now.

They don't rule us of course. In the main we get the governments to rule us that we deserve, most of which can be laid at the door of Canadian voter apathy.

I also blame email, all those emails that proclaim false ideas such as Hindus who are demanding O Canada be sung in Hindu! (sic) These emails are widely circulated and completely unfair with no basis in fact. Oh yes, the O Canada they wanted to sing in Hindi bore no relationship to the current words of O Canada. They (the emails) do fire people up though, more's the pity.

It is unimaginably hard for immigrants to get their foothold here (they do not go straight on the welfare rolls that's another email) it has cost them quite a bit of money to have their papers processed and then they have made a payment for each family member before they are admitted, plus they have to have a couple of hundred thousand bucks in an account. They bring nothing but good to Canada, it's very rare they are criminals or dross.

You can tell this has pushed a button for me.

Did you forget the thread wherein you said they should be made to take off their veils and be like us ?

What scares

What havoc specifically ?

If the Muslim community

And

And what word do you have for Mahar Arar now ? You know, the man you said was clearly guilty and that sending him to Syria was the correct thing to do ?

And the last Muslim terrorist attack in Canada happened exactly when? As opposed, of course, to other kinds of terrorist attacks, Quebecois, for example.

Elizabeth

I doubt that Christians would "persecute" gays any more than they themselves have been persecuted against.

I wish that was fact, but history tells me differently.

In some areas of Southern California, they estimate as much as 25% of the population is illegal immigrants. Providing them emergency medical care alone costs millions every year. One county (that's one county, not the whole state) estimated their costs for illegal immigration at $250M a year; no wonder California is going bankrupt!

But the activists lump all immigrants, legal and il-, together, and if you call for upholding the immigration laws, they call you a racist xenophobe. In fact, there are white anglo-saxon protestant illegals, and I'm just as much against them being here illegally as I am illegals of any other color.

You can doubt it all you want. It happens on a daily basis in this country. It can be as subtle as a constitutional ammendment nulifying partnership agreements or as brutal as hazing and beating, but it happens. You must have your hands over your eyes and your fingers in your ears not to know it.

Elizabeth

Link to back up statement that one county spends 1/4B, or 1/5 its annual budget on illegal immigration.

San Diego County today voted to bill the federal government for the cost of providing services to illegal aliens in the community.

As Casey Wian reports, the county alone now spends more than $100 million a year on the illegal immigration crisis, and the county wants that money back.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): San Diego County's illegal alien population has more than doubled during the past 10 years to about

210,000. A new study commissioned by the county estimates that nearly 7 percent of its residents are not legal residents. It found illegal aliens cost the county more than $101 million in law enforcement, health care, and social services.

The study's authors say their results must be treated with caution because of a lack of reliable data. But they believe illegal aliens also cost county hospitals $155 million in unreimbursed emergency medical care. Altogether, that's about a quarter of a billion dollars, or 20 percent of the entire San Diego County budget.

REP. BRIAN BILBRAY (R), CALIFORNIA: You will hear people talking in certain aspects and say, without illegal immigration, what would the cost of lettuce cost? Well, let me just tell you, with $244 million in one county, you could sure buy a whole lot of lettuce for that. So I think it really comes down to the fact that illegal immigration does not pay, is not good, and it's a financial disaster, and it's a moral violation of the responsibility of the federal government.

WIAN: The study did not take into account taxes paid by illegal aliens. Even so, San Diego's Board of Supervisors voted to send a bill to Congress for the county's illegal-immigration-related costs.

BILL HORN, SAN DIEGO BOARD OF SUPERVISORS: The county of San Diego taxpayers are bearing an unfair burden for a porous border. And it's the federal government's job to enforce the border. They have refused to do it and I think they should face the consequences of their action.

WIAN: It's the latest example of local governments from coast to coast and border to border struggling to cope with the issue. In July a federal judge overturned a law in Hazleton, Pennsylvania, that sought to repel illegal immigrants.

JACQUELINE BYERS, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES: Many of our counties would just welcome some guidance. And the fact that we haven't received any from the federal government is creating things like the Hazleton decision, which has got a lot of our counties running now because they had put laws in place and now they are afraid that they're going to be drug to court by outsiders. WIAN: Even so, Byers says taxpayers are demanding their county governments do something about the cost of illegal immigration, which in San Diego adds up to $1,336 per illegal alien.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WIAN: And that, of course, does not include other costs, such as the education of illegal aliens that are paid through state and federal taxes -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: Casey, perhaps local lawmakers are finally hearing the words of the American people when they tell them they want immigration solved.

WIAN: Absolutely.

(CROSSTALK)

PILGRIM: ... illegal influx.

WIAN: Yes. People have talked about this as a partisan issue for a long time. These local government are not Democrats. They're not Republicans, conservatives, liberals. They are just sick and tired of being charged with these bills for the consequences of the federal government's failure to secure the borders -- Kitty.

PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Casey Wian.

If people like illegal aliens had access to good preventative care or regular doctors, they would be less of a burden on the emergency medical system. But the way things are at the moment, the only choice such people have is to go to the emergency room, which exaggerates the burden that they might otherwise put on the system.

And the fact is, it suits SOMEBODY to have these people (especially the seasonal migrants who cross the border illegaly and return home year after year after year) in our employment scheme, or they wouldn't be here.

Elizabeth

I believe refugees would be another matter but it is very hard to claim refugee status now, after all, how many countries try to stop you leaving ? Refugees would come without money and likely do not speak any English/French but immigrants are a whole other matter but usually wind up dumped in with refugees.

In California though, are those illegals the ones who keep some of your services running ? If they do, an amnesty would be better. Accept them and have them paying taxes.

Well Christians are not persecuted in NA but I have heard tell of other countries where they went to preach Christianity to people who already had their religion and ran into trouble.

There are a lot of American citizens who also lack access to good preventative care.

I pay a substantial percentage of my income for a health insurance policy which was sold to me as "a PPO with discounts from Dollar One and a $1000 deductible". My doctor's office recently called to find out why my bills weren't paid, and they were informed that the policy has been changed: even though my card still says PPO/1000 and my billing statement still identifies it as PPO/1000, it's no longer offering discounts at participating doctors, the deductible is now 3500, and the deductible starts being used *only* when I'm hospitalized (ER doesn't count, must be admitted). With my health, I'd never qualify for a different policy without sending them my entire annual income, so I'm stuck and they know it.

California has a particularly high percentage of citizens without health insurance vis-a-vis other states. So it's not just the $155M the county is shelling out on ER visits by illegals, but probably an equivalent amount, if not more, for citizens who either don't have insurance or don't have adequate insurance (i.e., policies like mine).

There is a move at the statehouse to subsidize the purchase of health insurance, but that doesn't help those of us who have policies which refuse to pay for preventive care, and I'm sure I'm not the only person with the PPO/1000 plan who is suddenly finding it no longer pays for what it used to. What they need to do is mandate that all policies must cover *all* medical care, not just hospitalization.

Absolutely. They work cheaper than Americans. (Though the argument about $15/head lettuce has been shot down by someone who did the math and figured it might cost an extra 10c a head to pay field workers minimum wage.)

When I lived in San Diego, some of us who were having trouble finding summer jobs considered picking strawberries (I'd done it before, and knew I was fast). My roommate's parents were in agriculture, so I asked her to see if her folks would put in a good word with the strawberry growers in the area. She was blunt that she wasn't even going to waste the time -- they wouldn't hire Anglos. They knew we wouldn't hesitate to pick up the phone and report wage/hour/sanitation violations because we weren't afraid of being deported, and they knew they had enough violations to be fined out of existence if they hired someone who could speak English to the investigator.

As an industry insider, she made it clear to me that they tell the media they need Mexicans because "Americans won't do the job" knowing darn well that Americans wouldn't do the job for $1/hour but might do it for a living wage (in those days, minimum wage was $3-something and I could make $5/hour as a law office junior flunky); her parents hired legal people at legal wages and had no problem getting a full crew, but their crop wouldn't harvest till we were back in school, which didn't solve our summer job problem.

The big problem is, it's not just Mexicans looking for work wandering over the border. It becomes a national security issue when some terrorist who couldn't get a visa just moseys across and no one knows he's here, much less where.

Yep.

Elizabeth