OT: Need a new needlework sig line

Good Morning Mrs PP, the birds are Singing outside Celebrating a new warm day , I see /smell flowers everywhere , the sun is still hesitant about really rising from her easy sit on the verge of the lower Gallilee mountains [edge of Nazereth] But she already puts some colored rays on the Water heater tank of the Neighbouring house, after all she has to Rub this heater and Heat all those water tanks during the day.. It`s Saturday morning our rest day, thus No cars rushing to work,,, Just me and the birds , a 2nd cup of coffee....and reading my morning email post, your letter included.

You are mature enough and well read to know that there is a great difference between having a variation of opinions, and when opinions are Bigoted. Nobody expects , nore asks you Even To pretend ,to like those whohave different opinions than your`s, But Why do you ALWAYS express your Dislike , to everyone who`s opinions are different than your`s????? Why can`t you just leave it at having different opinions, why always add that Nasty Insult as well..

IF , and i stress the word IF , i had any doubt about it`s meaning, you gave me enough written examples, of it`s meaning ..

they have many more Similarities to all Humans , than diifferences.

I don`t ask people from what race they are , thus this has no bearing on my liking or not liking them. I like or dislke persons according to their behaviour to me and to other humans. .

How can i like or dislike a person i never met, or had any communication with ? Generally i like all people until they proove to harm others or me.

maybe, you should watch more carefully, where and when you put your feet in .

If indeed you don`t take life seriously , who gave you the right to be offensive and treadle over other people`s feelings.

Ah , well you see ? this is a very Jewish thing To Remember ,, Zchor . we remember the that we were slaves in Egypt and celebrate passover , we remember History , we remember names of family members.

Oh yes ??? So how come you try to revive certain Terminologies , from a certain Film , every several months ? Hinting Grossly to your gang about my ideas about them ..???????.

Seems to me you Bother a lot .

Since i am writing a Historical Documents based book , as well as creating fiberart [which is also a long term job ] i think that i should be happy that my memory still serves me well . forgetting would be unuseful. a grossly misused word, too quickly thrown at someone who

At the risk of being dismissed as one of Pat's gang, I wonder whether calling someone a bigot ever changed anyone's mind. Mirjam sees learning as a life long activity, keeping the mind open to new experiences. People can change their ideas, but if a person is put on the defensive by being labellled, they are unlikely to keep their mind open to the rest of what you have to say to them. Just a thought Dawne

I think it's helpful to look up words, as well. Sometimes they're misused, sometimes they're not. For instance, I took the time to look up bigot because I was a little unsure of the *exact* meaning. It doesn't have anything to do with "opinion" in the general sense of the word "opinion." It has to do with intolerance and narrow-mindedness in opinion. Clinging to an idea obstinately and intolerantly.

So, if nothing else, viewing conversations on the Internet has also caused me to learn something. :-)

Dianne

Dawne Peters> At the risk of being dismissed as one of Pat's gang, I wonder whether

So clinging to the antithesis is just as "bigoted". Point proven. Everyone has their beliefs, and as Dawne says, they`re very unlikely to be changed just because someone else holds the opposite view. I`m largely politically incorrect - politically correct is very much a dirty word (or two dirty words) as far as I`m concerned - principally because there are groups of people who have flogged them to death and made a farce out of them in many ways (not all).

So it`s OK to indulge yourself in whatever behavioural abnormalities you can find or invent? It`s OK to take drugs, produce children without proper family support, give up on marriage at the first hurdle, rely on the state to keep you? etc., etc., etc. And is the world a better place for all that, I ask you? I think NOT.

Don`t bother to try to persuade me otherwise. Save your breath to cool your porridge.

Pat P

That depends entirely upon the context, and whether or not it is prejudicial. I'm not talking about "you" specifically, just the general use of the word bigoted and what it means.

Agreed. But the definition of bigot means intolerant, prejudicial narrow-mindedness. Not open to anyone else's point of view. One needs to strive to allow other ideas to filter in and help guide us when assumptions.

Obviously you think homosexuality is an abomination, a choice. It is unlikely anyone will change your mind. I just believe that making prejudicial statements about them, in a public forum - where there may very well be homosexuals present and reading - is not good form.

These are social issues far flung from the issue of homosexuality. I suppose a good (better) analogy would be those who used to think the world is flat. It was blasphemy to think otherwise. Then, as we began to accept that maybe that notion was wrong-headed, we opened our eyes to the possibility that it was round.

But those who refused, initially, to accept the fact that the earth was round, weren't bigoted. Bigoted requires intolerant prejudice. Like saying all black people have low IQ's, or have rhythm. That's different than saying I think the world is flat and only about 5,000 years old.

What the heck is porridge, anyhow? :-) Never mind. I looked it up. :-) Dianne

I only raised the homosexuality thing because of the run-down on Mary Monica`s new book, so I didn`t just raise it out of the blue, you know. I certainly don`t belong to the flat earth socity, either, LOL! Neither do I believe that black people have a low IQ, for God`s sake! LOL! I do think that they seem to have more rhythm than a lot of us, but that`s no more prejudiced than saying that there is a higher percentage of people in Scotland with red hair than is true of those in England, for instance. If you ever spend time in Scotland, by the way, you`ll find it`s quite noticeable.

It`s a matter of opinion whether some things mentioned are wrong-headed. As I said - the current acceptance of some "politically correct" and "tolerant" views (not all, of course) has certainly not made the world a better place. It makes you wonder where it will end? Will murder be tolerated before long? Already many crimes are gradually being treated in a more and more lax fashion. The "Law" these days seems to be "Do just what you like, or whatever you can get away with. Someone else will pick up the mess."

Pat P

I really and truly hope that you are not equating homosexuality with murder, Pat.

Prejudice and bigotry are not the same thing, by the way.

Elizabeth

No, of course not! LOL! No wonder we all get into arguments!

Pat P

Dawne ! Thank you for realizing that i see learning as a life line. But one learns , mainly to undrstand , and see facts, and eventually one can Conclude Knowledge from the long learning . Both Mrs PP and me have exchanged letters for several years here. The first years , i only told her that She had XHenophobic and Prejudiced ideas,,,and giving her the benefit of assumming that she might not have known , that she was insulting. It took me several years to realize, that she is not only speeking unkindly about All Kinds of OTHERS , but that at regular periods she starts a post in which she writes some offensive words and expressions, in what seems a deliberate way to incite or cause pain. Hence after several years of this behaviour, i might conclude that she is not only using this to annoy , but she realy is a prejudiced person [ and a bigot to]. When somebody tells me that i have used and insultive term, i check myself , if i was mistaken i would not hesitate to say i am sorry, Mrs PP , has EARNED this term with her on going letters. Some people Do not change , no matter what you do or how you behave towards them. I thnk Mrs PP was and is always on the Attack mode , never on the deffense. She has labelled herself, without my help . Ps at least you never see me use foul words ,,, mirjam

Mrs PP , I think politicly Correct is a wonderful expression , that shows us that some of the old fashioned notiond were Grossly wrong. And That we should rethink our ideas about Human rights , ALL HUMANS . We woman have a lot to thank to Politicly correctness, It is maybe easy for you living in the UK , to dismiss PC ,,, but in many cultures Pc has done a lot for underpriviliged people.

Yes , any Good Law , or system has flaws, Nothing is 100% perfect, But this is the Best way to correct Generations of discriminations.

Although there are some connections between PC and the above, Please don`t use this Rhetoric method, to justify yourself. Historicly , Using drugs, impregnating poor women , And relying on State to suport them ,, happened just as much ,,,,, Only those who did it were what You call the Nobility and trhe Rich ,,,,, They took drugs, had illigal children and sent the poor mothers away to tend for themselves or be enclosed workshops for Straying women , The Nobles Got fat and lived as wanted while the poor suffered and died of hunger...So now , it is spread all over sociey, in all groups.... But Dop not blame the PC ,,,, Because PC enabled more women to have an education, and be able to suport their kids. PC enabled a more Just sharing of the Sources to more people .There is still not enough wealth for all, but eventuly i hope there will be. More education frre to all is the answer.

I like Oatmeal ... mirjam

Mirjam wrote

Interestingly, in North America anyway, "politically correct" is usually used negatively, rather than as a term of approval, partly because a very few people got carried away with distorting the language and with avoiding any reference to race etc. even when it is relevant. (When police are asking the public to beware of an armed and dangerous man, I would like to know more than his height). These days, even a request that someone not use really offensive language is likely to be met by a mocking reference to political correctness. (Oh, I must be politically correct and say bull doo doo). So, if Pat does not want to be politically correct, I don't blame her!! Dawne

Dawne i thnk that it is a pity , that the term Politicly Correct is being mocked, because it is not really the term itself, it is a mocekery aimed at the idea itself. it reminds me of another term , of which English translation i am not sure , So please try to find the correct one , it is called in Hebrew something like Corrective Discrimination. It is used to reserve places in places like Schools, unniversities , workplaces , Directories etc.. to Women and other minorities who weren`t accepted in equal numbers. [ A kind of upside down Numerous Clausus]. After a while it increased the number of Women and Minorities in all the establishments , amd than `the old powers hit back by ridiculing it ,,, But Alas , besides `real` revolutions [mobs in strets , killings , ruining buildings etc...] there is no better tool to change established discriminations , than PC and corrective discrimating rules. As a Woman , you should remember that only several genertations , ago Women had no voting right , Not much say in the handling of their own money, etc.... If you can now vote , drive, decided about many things on your own , without needing any male relative agreement, You have to thank our Grandmas who fought to have those rights ... All your rights , and many of your commodities in life , you Owe to People who many a time fought , striked and put years of their lives into those struggles. Shouldn`t we , give do a small effort , so that other generations after us will have better lives. And that other Humans who are now Less fortunate than us , in any way or manner , will have the same opportunities that we have ??? I have seen and heard this PC bashing and ridiculing , only in the places where people are aflluent , or think they have got it all . If you want your country , or your part of the world to be a safe good place in the future for your kids and grankids , you should Not ridicule PC . I know that part of the western affluency , can be kept by using cheaper labour in the other side of the Globe , And PC opposes this. Because if we all had the SAME living conditions , We all had the same ooportunities , commodities will have to cost MUCH more , because More educated people in better life conditions won`t produce commodities for such Low prices !!! And that is why it is so `in` to ridicule PC ....

Historicly Social changes happen in a Pendulum movements, It used to be quite Common in many places, that People were picked up by the police, because of their race, Thus the PC. went all the other way , it demanded that the a person`s race should not stressed so much, as a factor. Eventually when people will learn not to say/think "He /She is of that Race Hence he/she is an Automatic Suspect " than we will as socities , find a better way to say such a remark , without immidiately recalling the prejudiced idea, connected to it.

What a pity !!! I have felt this happening on this ng as well. Amazingly enough the same people Who Mock this requests, are many times the same people who Use offensive langugae, or who complain lenghtly and constantly , about the Children not having manners, or using horrid language , or the rising crime of youth. It is not the first time that i write it, But it is a known fact , that Offensive language , results eventually in offensive behaviours. Poeple who say many times :" I will kill you, i will F... you" etc... pass an inner psychological barrier, after saying this so many times , it is much easier to Hit somebody. Culture is building up values, we teach /learn those through words, the words later become little barriers or triggers to our behaviours. Hence PC , is a harmless tool for a social change , which we all might benefit from . mirjam (Oh, I must be politically correct and say bull doo

The trouble with the current trend for being politically correct as far as the employment of women is concerned, is that companies and organisations will bend over backwards to achieve their quota of women and LOOK good - but the then there is the danger that the women will be judged more on the fact that they are women, to the detriment of men who may be more highly qualified and more efficient.

There is more pride to be taken in a company that is well staffed and efficient, than in the mere fact that they have their recommended percentage of women employees. The sex (or race) of the staff shouldn`t come into it!

Pat P

Mrs PP, Alas, not all places Fill in their Quota of Females , and the mere fact that they still do, [ i.e. employ women] Only to fulfill a Legal requirement , says that They would rather not hire women , willingly. I jhave friends who are professors , doctors , curators, all very qualified ,who all have to work Twice as hard as their male colleagues, to proove that they were Rightfully hired. Males have their support nets , women are only now leraning to builds those nets, Clothing codes for successful females are Suits that look like the traditional male suits. Yes Gender should not be an issue , but it is and until A white male even if he is less qualified , will be easier hired than other people we have to have this ruling,,,, mirjam , >

Well Mirjam, as an "old hippie" and vetern of the feminist struggles, I just don't use the term "politically correct"--never have. It seemed to me to be very limited, a term about the words to be chosen in certain bureaucratic situations. I think it is less relevant whether it is he/she or she/he in documents than that our national anthem in Canada does not use inclusive language. If the lawmakers in my country really want to show me that I am an equal citizen, they would change that and not worry so much about whether they are calling someone a fisher or a fisherperson. . I believe, like most people of good will, that we should respect the dignity of every human being, and work so that every person can live in peace and freedom. Sometimes it is hard to agree how that should work out in practical terms, but it is, clearly, still worth doing. While language is important, in the end, I would rather have respect and my rights than be addressed in politically correct terms. Dawne

Are you talking about "affirmative action?"

Lucille