Stitcher's Murphy's Law?

Horrah!!!!! I can post again. I did a test to check. This is simply not true. The designer may know how much floss it took for a few model stitchers to complete the work on one canvas size, with one number of threads in the needle. The designer has no idea as to whether these stitchers were parsimoneous or profligate with their use of floss, somthing approaching a factor of two in floss usage. If the stitcher decides to do the piece with a different canvas size, or different number of threads in the needle, the designer's advice will be just plain wrong. I discussed this many years ago with Marilyn Leavitt-Imblum, TIAG, and she said she would *never* post this advice, since most of the time it would be wrong. I had personal experience of this many years later. Also, there are many people like myself, who have a stash with many partial skeins. The first thing I do when I get a new project is to go through my stash to see whether I have the requisite colors. I can measure how much I have of each. Will I have enough of any one of them to complete the project? Telling me I only need to buy one skein is of no help whatsoever.

Mine has a decent line of low priced things, some neat high end beads and a large in between range.

Cheryl

Caryn - you realise we may have to KILL you for starting him off again? ;-))

Pat P

I know I will probably never convinced you, Pat, or any other old timers on rctn that I know what I am talking about. However, one of these fine days we may get someone new on rctn who recognizes that I *do* know what I am talking about, and who is in a position to take up my ideas and run with them. A vain hope, maybe, but who knows?

I beg to differ with you, Jim. If a designer says to use a 14 ct. material and 3 threads, and to buy 2 skeins of certain colors, an experienced stitcher knows(generally) how much thread she/he will use. As thread comes in yds or meters, anyone can figure out the yardage needed. As to doing the chart in other material, or other threads, then I guesss the yardage could be a "guess"--lol. But most experienced stitchers have a lock on how they stitch, if they are frugal or wastful of thread, etc. So buy an extra one if not frugal. As to partial skeins, measure what you have left to compare with what is required. Big trouble with DMC---old colors are not the same dye lot as new ones. I have some old ones in my stash and they sure do not match the new colors. Even recently purchased colors to not match every time.

Clarice in AZ .

Clarice,

This whole thing is Jim's big bugaboo, he frequently posts rants here about how ALL designers should provide a stitch count for each color.

It would be a waste of a printed page for most stitchers (only a few anal ones actually calcuate exactly how many sts they get per skein). Why should designers pick up the tab for a small minority of stitchers? Printing each page costs the designer money, maybe just pennies a chart, but across 100's or 1000's of charts it adds up. And really, what does the designer gain? She/he won't sell more charts because of it, they are just out the money to print it.

Caryn

Let me reply to both messages at the same time. I have not seen any designer give advice as to how many skeins to buy. If such designers exist, I would love to know who they are. As I have noted, Marilyn Leavitt-Imblum stated to me that she would *never* provide such information. It is simply wrong too often, and then customers complain; not good PR. As to Caryn's message, I have *never* suggested symbol counts be put on patterns. I know this would be stupid and expensive. However, it would be easy, and cheap, to put symbol counts on web pages. These days many stitchers have internet access, and so do most LNSs.

Ummm. Jim, I might be wrong, but I'm positive I've seen guides on a couple of the older MLI's on how many skeins/spools I will likely need for specific colours. I don't have easy access to my pattern collection right now (still in boxes from our move), but I'd be willing to bet on it. It might be just for the metallics, but I'm sure I've seen it. And I know other designers (for example Mirabilia comes to mind) sometimes list it if more than one will be needed. I *could well be* wrong, but I know I've seen it. As for Noah's Sub, it was just common "stitcher's sense" that made me get multiples of the colours for the top of the sub as there appeared to be a large area of it. I didn't expect any of the blues for the water to need more than one, and I slightly underestimated for one colour. Of the second skein I purchased, I don't think I used more than one or two lengths from it to finish, and I was careful in where I ended up from the original so even if there was a slight difference, it wouldn't be noticible. Heather

True, but I know that if I use 3 strands instead of 2, I will use half again as much floss. If I'm working on 6 count instead of 18, I'll use probably 3x more; if I'm working on 36 over one instead of 14, I'll use probably 3x less. And that should be common sense to any stitcher brave enough to change the fabric.

One of my problems is that some designers *will* list that the original was stitched on 14-count and used 2 skeins, but not whether it was stitched 2-ply or 3-ply, since either is acceptable on 14. So, do I buy

On the whole, I agree with Jim, that I would rather buy an extra skein that I don't need than get 95% done with something and then have to add in a skein that doesn't quite match. Plus, since I don't drive, it's $3.50 bus fare to go pick up one skein.

Common sense, Caryn and Clarice! And not even from the "older stitchers". If you DO have to buy an extra skein and it`s a different dye lot (I often have to do this for large areas of sky, for instance) - make a rough guess on the quantity you have left and blend the old and new between the two dye lots - even scatter some stitches from each lot on either side of the "join" and you`ll never notice.

Pat P

You're right, Heather. Fairy Grandmother (current WIP) has a couple of colors (browns) that she states uses more than one skein. I think it's Angel of Winter that the pattern says it uses 10 skeins of white, so she does put that info on at least *some* of her charts.

Joan

I always give the numbers of skeins required - and if only a few stitches are needed in any shade, I say so, and suggest that flowers (for instance) can be stitched using oddments you already have. More than that is, I am convinced, totally un-necessary. You can, perhaps, judge the unreliability of detailed calculations from the number of times that people complain that they have run out of a specific colour when using a kit! There are just too many variables.

Pat P

SamSarah does! Should I go pull out the book and tell you which charts?

Cheryl

But sometimes the problem is the kit itself. I'm one of those people who uses the last possible millimeter of floss, so if I run out, I would expect 100% of stitchers to run out. I rarely frog, so that's not an issue.

I've had kits where I had to piece out with as much as an entire skein of my own floss. That's not stitcher error -- that's kitter error if I come up 8 yards short.

I've had kits where I scaled back from 14-count to 16-count, and even with that 15% reduction in thread usage, I was down to the last strand of some color.

I certainly wouldn't kit up for sale with my exact floss usage, since I know most stitchers aren't quite so thrifty with their floss; I'd expect almost everyone to use at least one length more than I do. The question is, whether kit makers should allow for the "one in every crowd" who cuts her floss 12" long, then loses 4" to an away waste knot and another 4" to an ending tail. The Janlynn Sesame Street kits I've done all seemed to be providing enough floss for even the most profligate stitchers; I could've done the kit twice with the floss provided.

As Martha Beth says, "floss is cheap". If you're getting your kitting floss at WalMart prices, one extra length of each color will cost you less than a quarter. Is it worth an extra quarter to you to have happy customers? Do you think your customers would pay the extra few cents to know that your kits have more than adequate floss?

Or you could stint on the floss and fabric and have 10,000 RCTN readers informed that Brand X kits aren't worth the money because you'll run out of floss and the fabric isn't even an inch larger than the finished stitchery. Just google "Happy Things" or "Patsy Moore" to see how many times that complaint has come up about every single one of their kits, and not just from me.

Alas, I have fallen in love with the Brambly Hedge mice, but can't find a US source. What UK sources are recommended?

Pat in Illinois

The Serendipity Designs website does give some of this information for the MarBek Nativity. Certain colors of the blending filament are marked as "requires 2 spools". None of the DMC is marked this way. I haven't stitched it yet but suspect multiples might be needed for some of the DMC.

I th> Let me reply to both messages at the same time. I have not seen any

I always do this with my designs - it really takes very litte effort!

Pat P

I always provide the info if one of my models required multiple skeins as well. MLI does this now too, has for a while now (I know that Fairy Grandmother gave this info, and that came out in the late 90's).

Jim doesn't actually buy many charts, creating his own nekkid ladies from paintings as he does. I expect he's operating on information that is either totally out of date or is just plain uninformed.

Caryn

I'm sorry, but that line for some reason sent my evening cocoa out right thru my nose...

I guess I can't complain about smelling chocolate while I try to sleep. Becky A