OT -- making rec.crafts.scrapbooks an official newsgroup

Hello!

My name is Devin, and although I'm not a scrapbooker, there is something that I might be able to do to help out this group get to even more people.

As some of you may know, there's a collection of newsgroups, known as the Big-8 because it involves 8 top-level hierarchies (like rec.*), that has a particular process that newsadmins around the world have generally agreed to follow when adding or removing groups from those 8 hierarchies. At one point, rec.crafts.scrapbook was proposed as a new group under this procedure, but lost the resulting vote.

A few news admins went ahead and created the group on their servers. While this is completely within their rights to do so, this created a problem -- since the group hadn't been created according to the procedure that is considered to be customary, many newsadmins consider it to be a "bogus" groups and will not carry it on their servers. This includes some of the larger news service providers.

The reason I bring this up now is that the topic -- and this group -- have come up in discussion in news.groups (the home of the group creation procedure). Many of the admins there have expressed their willingness to support the "official" creation of the group, since it has shown good, healthy levels of traffic since that vote 5 years ago. (This is usually one of the largest concerns for any new proposed group -- that the proponents can show that there is a demand for the group.)

The consensus among news.group seems to be that getting this group formally approved at this time would be pretty much a slam dunk, if only someone stepped forward to do it. Which is where I come in. I'm volunteering to be the official "proponent" to get the ball rolling on the RFD (Request for Discussion) and CFV (Call for Votes) process, handle filling out the electronic paperwork and such, and generally do all the gruntwork associated with pushing an newgroup proposal thorugh the process.

Since I am not a user of this group, however, I wanted to stop and ask you all: is this something you would want to happen? The requirements for the vote are pretty simple: there must be at least twice as many YES votes as NO votes, and there must be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes. Most group proposals fail not due to NO votes, but due to a lack of YES votes.

My concern at this point is in helping what seems to be a vital, healthy group get acknowledged as "legit" and help it jump through the hoops. If the vote passes, this group will be created on hundreds more news servers across the world and make it easier for scrapbookers to find and use.

At this point, there is no formal vote -- I just would like you to email me and let me know if you would be willing to vote yes if I were to go forward with this. This is a straw poll and is usually considered to be the last step of gathering hard data to support traffic predictions.

So, if this is something that you would like to see happen, drop me a note via email to snipped-for-privacy@thecabal.org and let me know. If you don't care, simply ignore me. :) I'll come back in a couple of days to let you all know the results and whether they indicate some sort of consensus to move forward.

Have a great one!

Reply to
Devin L. Ganger
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considering this group is on google, and MOST news servers... it doesn't need to be proposed to do anything... something just doesn't sit right with me. I have offered access to this group to anyone who wants it by just emailing me. So there is no reason for anyone to try to control this group.

snipped-for-privacy@thecabal.org (Dev>Hello!

Reply to
burnerbabe

Hey everyone. I don't think this is legit. I remember someone trying to do something similar in another newsgroup several years ago, and the more news savvy people said it's just an attempt for them to get your email address and other info. Check it out in news.group and post there if you want, but don't send email to this person's address!

Reply to
Sheri Payne

yeh as if a non scrap booker would even care thanks for heads up Shaz

Reply to
Shaz

This is a clip from our FAQS page on our website

Why are you unofficial? We're unofficial because when Joana tried to create the group in June of 1998 according to the "Big Eight" guidelines, the group failed the vote. For some reason, some ISPs picked the group up anyway.

What is the "Big Eight?" What are the guidelines for creating a "Big Eight" group? How did you fail the vote? For all that information and more, please visit

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And ever since we have voted a million times wether to make us official, and we voted a million time s NO.

Reply to
Shelley

As much as I love meeting new people, I think our group is growing just fine and sine there are alternative viewing areas, I don't see any reason for us to be "official" any more than we are. Don't fix what isn't broken I say.

Reply to
Dawn Gentz

ditto everyone before me!!

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**Patty in Florida**

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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.comTRASHTRASHmhetrick@se.rr.comTRASHtake out the TRASH

Pages done in 2003: 31

Reply to
Patty H

We don't want to do anything to take away our closeness. If it was way big it wouldn't have the love and caring that we have now. Irene

Reply to
Jam113

I'm with Dawn - I think our group is growing fine as is.

Besides, we are listed and well known on other groups as a reference point and anyone who really is interested in NGs about scrapbooking will find us. We also have a great "word of mouth" growth pattern of friends telling other friends. I think that is what makes us all feel so close to each other and so much like a family.

I participate in tons of groups (most of them are official) and I have never encountered the friendliness on ANY of them that I receive here. I don't think that is coincidental.

Of course, this is my personal opinion, but if it were called up for a vote, I would vote no. Sorry!

Renee >As much as I love meeting new people, I think our group is growing just

Reply to
Renee Reid

seems like an "email gathering" attempt to me!!!

Cowchipper Aka April

Reply to
Cowchipper

No, I'm not scamming you, and this is a legit offer. If you don't believe me, head over to news.groups and check out the "Please Add The Following Newsgroup to the Big 8 Hierarchy" thread that's going over there.

You're also more than welcome to do a Google on my name and address; you'll see that I am a real live Usenet user, same as you, who has been an often-quiet reader of news.groups for mnay years, as well as a former newsadmin. This isn't the first time I've made offers to help with group formation; several years ago, I offered space on my own personal server, at my own cost, to run the moderation bot for the rec.arts.dr-who.moderated group, while they were in their RFD stage.

But don't take my word for it -- Google has the details, and the discussion is going over in news.groups.

Reply to
Devin L. Ganger

Devin is quite legit. Go check out news.groups if you are concerned. But I can see the concern about e-mailing him (not Devin in particular, but a stranger). Discussion right here is probably just as good ... I'm sure Devin is listening.

The concern brought to news.groups, is that the group is not carried by many who probably would carry it. For example, at work, I get my news from news://news.individual.net and this group is not carried there. This means that many people who are referred to the group, can't actually get it directly (though they could always get it through Google).

Nick

Reply to
Nicholas Fitzpatrick

LOL I agree with Dawn and Shelley...we are officially..unoffical ! Look how long the RCS has been around! Hugs,

Sabrina :-)

Reply to
Sabrina

alt.crafts.scrapbooks is carried on yours though!!

Reply to
Cowchipper

Yes. I know the German server does not carry it either because it is not an official group. Google is a problem if you do not have a high speed server. Web based reading takes forever. I had a dial up this summer and used the German server. I could not access r.c.s. and trying to read it via Google was torture so I gave up.

Reply to
JennP

But there's no traffic there. I tried to generate some this summer while I had no access to r.c.s because the German server wouldn't recognize it.

Reply to
JennP

Nicholas Actually that is the plan!

Reply to
Shelley

I think the nature of this NG, that is, the personal connection that is felt by the users, could very easily be lost if it was officially recognised. There is a lot of communication that happens offline between the users here, and I fear that, once officially recognised, the group could/would be inundated by people not as sincere as we have now. The fact that the NG is sometimes more difficult to access likely contributes to weeding out some of the less committed people (i.e. spammers). This is a good thing for the community of this group. No offence to Nick or Devin, but the ladies here, in this man's mind, deserve the right to be able to stay "off the beaten track", so to speak, especially if it will reduce the amount of spam and increase their comfort level by even just a little. Perhaps it's better to leave Pandora's box closed ;)

Kellar

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Reply to
Kellar

Couldn't have put it better myself!

I totally agree with everyone!

I'm a NO...don't need to email my vote...you can read it right here!

Thanks for your concern, but we seem to be doing great on our own...you know the old saying: if it ain't broke....

Donna and her 2c

Reply to
Donna

Well, I'm sure you can understand why we tend to be a bit more skeptical than most. We are small and very close-knit. Its annoying to have our emails raked up for spamming! ;-)

And yes - based off your recommendation, I have looked the topic up and your offer does seem legit. I'm sure that everyone here does appreciate your offer. Honestly - its not often we get many folks who are out there trying to help a bunch of scrapbookers become more adept with changing technologies. However, I'm sure you've been following the thread and can see that most of us are fine with our NG being a "small town" on the net.

Personally - I want to thank you for your offer, but I don't really want us to go "big time." There are pitfalls as well as advantages to being among the elite. Since we have already worked something out for those who have lost the NG to regain access, it seems that most of our major difficulties have already been addressed.

I can't and won't speak for everyone, but that's my 2 cents.

Renee >

Reply to
Renee Reid

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