OT: The Voices in my Head

Agreed. And sometimes, when it is safe to do so, allow real consequences to be the teacher, instead of trying to force blind obedience to external authority.

Deirdre

I agree with this. And with the fact that in this case, the impulse to get his undivided attention matched the scale of the danger involved. A mild, unemotional scolding wouldn't have been in proportion to the gravity of the situation.

Deirdre

Oh, yes! There are two aphorisms which must be kept in balance here:

"Experience keeps an expensive school, but fools will learn in no other."

"Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement."

Too much emphasis on *either* of these approaches is a Bad Thing.

Celine

Given the pain I feel when one of my little ones comes to me with a scraped knee, I *cannot fathom* this from a parent. Yet, so many people do this to their own children.

On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 3:01:38 -0400, Dr. Sooz wrote (in message ):

I only got beaten bloody once. With the buckle of a belt. Because my parents thought I was jealous of my sister (they remembered her birthday and forgot about mine - yes, I was jealous. Any ten year old kid would be). Welts were so common as to be totally forgettable.

Then there was the time I got my head knocked into the wall until I was unconscious. My father thought I made a face at him. I remember nothing of that beating, except waking up lying across my bed. My brother and sister saw the whole thing and were terrified.

Guess why I have an aversion to laying a finger on any child in anger? I'd rather swear my head off, go to my room to be alone (put myself in timeout) or go for a long walk. I look like a loon on those walks, because I'm usually muttering about how angry I am, while I stomp along the road. But that's okay - I'd rather the neighbors all think I'm nuts than to give my daughter(s) a fear of me that wakes them up at night.

When DD was small and I was at the end of my rope, I'd put her in her crib, then sit in the shower and cry. Maybe not the best solution, but it kept me from doing things I'd have regretted later.

It's funny, though. I've pretty much seen the worst they can dish out, and it doesn't really get to me anymore. Sometimes I get angry, but not that "can barely see, I'm so upset" rage. Usually, I can distract them or tell them to knock it off long before it gets to the point where I'm yelling.

Obligatory Disclosure: I did swat DD on her diapered behind once. I had just had a cast removed from my broken wrist, and she stamped on it in a fit of anger (didn't want to take a bath). She wasn't quite two, and it happened so quickly, it was an automatic reflex from the pain. Turned out it that there was so little contact that she never knew my hand hit her diapered butt. Still, I cried for days afterward from the guilt of hitting her. It never happened again, thank God.

Kathy N-V

(((((((((Tink))))))))))))

Tina

Me too :(

Laura

Me too :( But I'm learning how to ground myself. Working with my hands helps.

Laura

I hear you Tink. I was trained not to cry too, and its still a problem for me, along with the dissassociative thing. How's that done, someone might ask? Hit a kid repeatedly and deteminedly while they cry and tell them not to, keep hitting till they stop and then say "see, you were faking it all along, you weren't REALLY crying." Or, if the kid CAN'T stop crying, devolve to the ever-popular "I'll give you something to cry about". Thats a lovely recipe for

But that waking you to face punishment stuff is very scary, and makes it so you live in a minefield 24-7. This is so hard on a person's well being as you know. There's never any :safe: time or place, except what you can create in your own head. Its also VERY indicative of the fact that this terrible abusive behavior has NOTHING to do with anything a sleeping child does to set it off, and also often goes with drinking bouts. It wasn;t your fault Tink, it wasn't mine either. It's just something we get to deal with.

{{{Tink}}} Sarajane

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IME, the *real* fools are the ones who keep having the same experience without learning from it. Wise people, or rather, people on the road to wisdom pay attention to what -doesn't work- and try something else the next time.

Deirdre

When we're dependent on, and therefore trapped with our tormentors, it is the only option open to us most of the time. But it can be hard to set aside as a coping strategy when we are adults, and have other options open to us. Once you actually have a habit of actively searching for other options, IME, the 'leaving your body' gradually stops happening automatically at the first sign of threat.

Deirdre

The underlying assumption is that adults *own* the children in their keeping, and how they treat them is no one else's business. All power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The divine right of kings has nothing on the limitlessness of unwitnessed parental power over children.

It is a practice protected by single family dwellings and the fairly recent institution of the 'nuclear' family, to a large extent, where no outsider gets to see or hear how bad it is or how often it happens.

To me 'nuclear' is the right term, since it refers to something that can eat through steel drums and concrete, and can stay toxic for dozens of generations.

If we can't de-institutionalize this set up on a wide scale (and most attempts to do that have failed), we absolutely have to learn to heal from it one individual at a time. And being able to *imagine* our way out of our terrifying pasts is one of the best ways I've had any experience with.

If we can revisit the past *with new resources*, we can take the curse off the worst events in our lives, and replace our memories of our isolated and powerless former selves with an experience of having real choices and powerful allies.

Deirdre

This reminds me of a Gandhi quote. When asked what he thought about Western Civilization, he said "I think it would be a good idea."

Western Civilization as such pretty much starts with the Greek 'ideal' you describe. About time we had a better idea about how to value those defined as non-persons or property in this deeply flawed model.

Deirdre

It sure does, doesn't it? Sometimes when I'm melting glass, and I feel the flame on my face, and my arms are tired and shaky from hours at the torch, it feels as though I'm literally wrestling with demons. But I always win.

I became more connected about two years ago with the help of my mentors at the University. I not only used to dissociate when bad stuff happened, but when really good stuff happened! I was missing out on the best stuff!

An example: I was chosen as the Wallenberg Scholar at the University a couple of years back. Pretty big deal. Had to give a speech. Got a super cash award. Was in all the papers, on TV, stuff like that. Do you think I can remember ANY of it?

I've learned what kind of situations trigger the dissociation and am pretty much able to fortify myself against it now. Prairieson is a huge help in that regard. He knows me so well and understands me to the point that he sees it coming before I realize it myself most of the time. He knows just what to say and do to help...

yes, I belive that the action was appropriate and useful. I also know that it happened without concious thought, and scared the bejesus out of me. I have a lot invested in thinking I am in control of myself--its always a such wake up call when you find out that you aren't as aware or as in concious control as you think--and thats a good thing to remember! But not a comfortable thing. And it made me understand more about my own parents and about other people as parents. It also solidified my stance on wanting to do anything--like go sit in the shower by myself as Rainbow said, rather than hurt my kids. Ever. Sarajane

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too funny---I thought of that as soon as I hit send!!! (((smooch!!}} Sarajane

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I think it happens whenever the load is more than the line can carry, to use an electric metaphor. I still see whats going on and remember it, because the "I Am A Camera" thing is my coping mechanism. But it *feels* like I am behind the glass lens or in a diving suit. Sarajane

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Tink, I am honestly AMAZED that you're not a multiple. You seem to have had the absolutely *textbook* background for developing MPD. It's a testament to your internal strength, I think, that you did not go that route.

Celine