I ran across this site, and although I like some of what she posted, some of it, I just gritted my teeth...and *I* don't make beads yet.
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "meijhana" :
]
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
This missive was recently discussed on another list I'm on, and not terribly well-received. Maybe I'm too nice, or too dense or something, but I think MOST of her points were valid in at least her own context. Is it correct for everyone? (Buyer or seller) No, probably not. But I certainly related to her comments about endless scroll with the same beads over and over again (I still shop for beads, too), and I think her remarks about sticking what works for you are well-intentioned, too.
I also liked her "hints" about color and design. I don't know about the other beadmakers, but there are times when my inner muse is napping and I'd LOVE to have some buyers peering over my shoulder telling me what they'd like to see next, or to see more of.
Some folks on that other list bristled at feeling like they were being told what to do. All I can say is, the best way to make sales is to listen to your potential customers. Without them, you don't have a business.
That's kinda what I got the feeling of. But I didn't get the feeling so much of "opinion" but of "NEGATIVITY". I wouldn't mind something like a page opened up, where people could post a "I would like to see..."
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Karen_AZ" :
]I also liked her "hints" about color and design.
well . . . i thought she was way off base. okay, so spring is coming. i would have been buying spring colors last fall, because sometimes it takes me that long to decide exactly what i want to do with something. i'll look at "holiday" stuff any time of year. it doesn't do me any good to wait until December to buy Christmas theme beads, because by the time i buy them, make them up, and get them on display, Christmas is over . . . if you see what i mean?
and her opinions on color are her own - they don't necessarily hold for anyone else. a LOT of people i sell to aren't worried about what color is "in" this year - but what will go with the kinds of colors they normally wear and are comfortable in.
personally, i thought her whole rant was a bit snotty. **shrug**
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Karen_AZ" :
]there are times when my inner muse is napping and I'd ]LOVE to have some buyers peering over my shoulder telling me what they'd ]like to see next, or to see more of.
i'll remember that! **grin** as soon as my checkbook isn't spoken for!
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
You're right, she does have *some* valid points. While I was reading her diatribe, I started thinking about a few of the successful eBay lampworkers I know (I don't pretend to know them all) and those pretty much follow what Diane has put forth, excluding the price bit. I don't think that lampwork artists should hold back just because their beads are in demand and get high bids. I say enjoy it while it lasts and may it last a long time! The artist is obviously doing something right though I hope that the artist also remembers the jewelry maker who really can't make jewelry from those high priced beads unless the jeweler is lucky enough to get into a high-end gallery. Whatever, that's not necessarily the bead artists' problem, is it?
I don't know if I have trouble reading for comprehension but did she admit to shilling???? !!! I don't think that's a brilliant move on her part but so be it.
You know there's a couple of things I've learned working in retailing banking and that's to "kill them with kindness". I just don't see the need to name names but then again I don't know her story and I'm not exactly sure I want to based on that alone. If I hadn't looked at her jewelry before reading, I'd probably write her off. Never the less, she is a jewelry artist with something to say.
She apparently respects Kalera and Corina, she can't be all bad.
I agree with you Vicki. When I read that part I thought why isn't she planning ahead? Sure, if I need something NOW then I'd appreciate the seasonal colored beads. She is a professional and that part of her diatribe was not believable even to a newbie like me.
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from MargieK :
]I don't know if I have trouble reading for comprehension but did she ]admit to shilling???? !!! I don't think that's a brilliant move on ]her part but so be it.
she did, and it would serve her right if it backfired on her.
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
Seems to me she has some complaints with certain people and should take it up with them. It is a long (I didn't read it all) and negative rant. While she has a point about posting in categories that are not wholly appropriate, it happens all the time on Ebay. I did a search under movies for "glass" and got a lot of hits for people selling glass chess sets (like in the XMen movie). It comes with the territory. -- There are no mistakes, only unexplored techniques
Techincally isnt shilling bidding to get the price up with the owners knowlege and encouragement? A cooperative effort. What shes doing is just bidding on stuff to get the price up, but not for her benefit, just for the sellers. Im not defending her. It seems like shes playing a silly game, and it wouldnt bother me if she got stuck with some of those sets she doesnt care for. hmm.. no... on second thought Id rather see those beads go for a good price to someone who would treasure them instead. Diana
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Diana Curtis" :
]Techincally isnt shilling bidding to get the price up with the owners ]knowlege and encouragement? A cooperative effort. What shes doing is just ]bidding on stuff to get the price up, but not for her benefit, just for the ]sellers.
you're probably right, Diana, with the real definition of shilling. i think it was her attitude that irritated me the most.
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
I responded the same way, Mary. She does have some valid points, but her style of making them is rather sharp!! Sarajane
Sarajane's Polymer Clay Gallery
Actually, I thought this article with her requests was mostly right on target. A lot of these suggestions are just smart business. I'll discuss them one by one -
Searching in the Handmade Lampwork category on ebay - Searching the term "lampwork beads kiln annealed" is too limiting in my opinion. I just search "annealed" in that category, and get almost all artist beads. But it is a good idea for beadmakers to include the keywords kiln annealed, lampwork, glass, and beads in their auction descriptions. If your beads are not kiln annealed, though, don't include that. And there are some lampworkers who are listing tools and such and forgetting to remove the keywords that don't pertain to the listing. So when I search for annealed, I still get some tools, etc. in the results, and that's annoying.
I totally agree with the thought about NOT putting jewelry in the Handmade Lampwork category. (Or metal beads, or Czech pressed glass, etc.) It may be made out of lampwork, but the subcategory is Loose Beads. There is another section for jewelry, and people that make jewelry really should use that category. The handmade lampwork category has way too many listings to have to house jewelry as well, IMO. Plus, it is against ebay rules to list in inappropriate categories.
As for the dichro cabochons - well there is no other place to list fused glass pieces that don't have holes - i.e. beads, so I am not sure how to solve that problem.
I thought it was mean of her to mention a specific artist when suggesting the spacing out of items, but I do see her point about that. She's looking at things from a buyer's perspective.
I also understand the suggestion to stick with what sells, but on the other hand, we are artists, so we do like to branch out from time to time.
And I completely agree with offering your best beads to the buyers. (Unless you specifically mark them as seconds, or wonkies, like some famous beadmakers do). There are sooooo many listings on ebay. And (I know this is not going to make me popular) there are a lot of beads listed that are not very well done. I admit that I am very critical of what I see. But if the beads aren't technically good, they will not sell for much anyway. There are a lot of lampworkers frustrated with ebay right now, but what a lot of people just don't get is that sometimes it's not their presentation, their prices, their shipping costs or their auction terms - it's the BEADS. Look inward. Perfect what you are doing. There's so much competition. It's not like several years ago when there weren't very many lampworkers, and lampwork beads were selling really well, no matter what. Now, the stakes are higher, the quality is getting better. We, as artists, need to constantly get better at what we do to stay in the game. Mishapen, pointy-holed, dirty beads just don't cut it any more. Buyers are looking for higher quality now, because they have more choices than ever before.
The stuff at the end about colors and themes is right on. If you're in business to sell your artwork, you do need to keep up with the market's demands when it comes to color, theme, shape, size and style. Artistic expression *is* important. But let's face it - if you're selling your work on ebay, you're doing it to make money, so if you're not paying any attention to market research, and you don't sell your beads, you don't have any reason to complain about it.
Keep in mind that her article is form the point of view of a jewelry artist who buys beads. We beadmakers would do well to heed some or all of her advice.
My opinions, of course, YMMV and all that. :) Flame on!
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 7:32:55 -0500, vj wrote (in message ):
I thought that the writer had some valid points (put your auctions in the proper areas, try to stagger ending times, etc.), but the whole thing came off as a rant, and not a reasonable request.
The way she approached the issues probably ended up backfiring. If I can't find what I like/need/want from a specific bead artist, I just write to them and see if I can either commission something, or inquire if they plan to list something similar to what I need. Asking nicely usually works. Ranting to the world in general usually ticks people off.
If I were her, I would remember that anything posted on the Internet _never goes away._ Machines all over the world archive things, and someone, somewhere will read that rant years from now. Since that someone might be your kid, or your boss, or a potentential customer, it's always a wise move to make your complaints in a diplomatic manner.
Kathy N-V
Oh, me too! Sometimes I just have too many colors to choose from and need a little artistic nudge. :)
I didn't get a negative vibe at all. She's a smart businesswoman, and her points seemed right on. Firm, yes - but those things really need to be said, and I think sometimes people are afraid to say them for fear of being though "not nice". The art business world is often not nice, but we need to pay attention as artists, because often we just really want to do our own thing, and then we complain when it's not received well in the market. Hell, if I didn't need to make money doing this, I would do whatever I wanted all the time, artistically. But I do, so I need to listen to the buyers.
I agree---which is why I find this writing sample a useful example of tone. Her words surrounding the actual informative content cause a reader reaction which dulls the impact of the actual information. Its like setting gemstones in less than appealing mounts--decreasing the value percieved---which is, ironicly, her point in the first place!! Sarajane
Sarajane's Polymer Clay Gallery
Well, it may come with the territory, but it's against ebay rules, and it does make things more difficult for buyers and sellers. Just because it's done, doesn't make it right. It ticks me off to see a bunch of totally non-related items listed in a category when I am trying to get buyers to see my listings, which are appropriate for the category.
But if you notice, Valentine's Day beads and spring colors are going really well on ebay.
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