Holy Geez! I'd be pissed to! In fact, I'm pissed with you.
DD handled it well, even with saying the "F" word. I have no idea why they think one racial slur is worse than another. Puuuuleeze! I know you well enough by now that I know you are going to take care of business. I would love to be a fly on the wall with your meeting at the school.
As for the other mother, well I'm sorry to say that some folks don't see their children as anything but perfect. I never was and I admitted when I did things wrong. Even if I could have gotten away with it.
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Kathy N-V :
]The principal told me that the school ]is going to have to back down, because they cannot afford a racial incident. ]I am not satisfied with that decision, and DH and I are meeting with the ]principal to discuss it. If I have to go all the way up the food chain with ]this one, I will do so in a heartbeat.
I SHOULD HOPE NOT, knowing "our" Kathy!!!!! i'll be right there with you, in spirit anyway, tomorrow, Kathy! put all that "pain energy" to work and let 'em have it right between the eyes!
then, there are the newspapers . . .
and the board of education . . .
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vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Karen_AZ" :
]Since when is self-defense fighting?
trust me - i've tried "fighting" this one out in another group.
**sigh** as far as some schools are concerned, any physical contact is fighting and they suspend both parties - regardless of the circumstances. i don't agree -- by a long shot -- but that way they don't have to try to figure out "right and wrong" - they just suspend all concerned. it seems to be bigger east of the Mississippi than west - especially west coast.
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vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Karen_AZ" :
]DD has been called "too ]sensitive" for being upset by bullying, I sorta kinda like the zero slant. ]BUT it's NOT fair, and sends and equally bad message IMO. Guilt by ]association, tolerating verbal bullying, and other things like that have a ]heavier sense of "wrong" to me than caving in to the bullying when one's ]length of rope has been reached.
in general, i agree with you. but remember - bullying was what caused Columbine and several incidents like it. tolerating the bullying is flat-out wrong - but kids are sneaky and find all kinds of ways to keep doing it.
it took me what felt like forever to convince Johnny that the teacher NEVER sees the first incident - only the second - so if you swing in self-defence, unless you've got a lot of brave witnesses, odds are you're going to get nailed for it. in some schools, i think the "automatic suspension" is to give the parties concerned time to cool off. personally, i think they should be kept AT school - suspension is too much like going home to play for my taste. making them spend the entire school day in the same room with each other until they work it out might be better.
i'm SO glad Jamie and Johnny are finally OUT of the Sacramento school system!!!!!!!
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
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incidents like it. tolerating the bullying is flat-out wrong - but kids are sneaky and find all kinds of ways to keep doing it.<
I TOTALLY agree! We had one incident at DD's PA school just before Columbine happened. I was scheduled to meet with the principal about it 2 days after. Mind you, I really LIKED that principal. But he started out with "I've met with your DD's teachers and after school supervisors, and they feel she's over-sensitive about teasing and may have brought this on herself." I went ballistic. He had a newspaper on his desk, with an article about Columbine, and I told him point blank that I was pretty damned certain THAT principal had spouted the same bullshit. While DD may be sensitive (better than being a callous brat), ignoring her pleas for help and telling her to suck up and deal told the bullies that what they were doing was okay. Gah!
Within two years the school district aggressively changed its policy. You're right, the nasty ones still find ways to act out. But I think many have become more aware of acceptable behavior and proper responses to it, instead of just accepting this as "kids will be kids." Here in AZ the policy has been much more watchful for many years. I don't know why, but the teachers are, in general, outstanding. There are still situations, obviously, and I think you're right about "uniform response." However, even though I think K was wronged in her situation, I'm still pleased that something was actually DONE.
KarenK (who's soooo grateful she didn't go into teaching and thinks all teachers get automatic points towards sainthood)
On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 4:31:56 -0400, vj wrote (in message ):
in some schools, i think the
Your schools don't have IBS - In Building Suspension? We do. It's a very tiny classroom with its own bathroom, directly across the hall from the Principal's office. The offending children get to spend the day with various teachers (who volunteer for the task), as well as shifts from the guidance counselors.
In a case like my daughter's, if she had actually retaliated or taken a swing at the other kid, they'd both have to go to mediation, with a couple of trained student mediators and two specially trained guidance counselors. Both sets of parents would probably be brought in, as well. (If there are two parents. In more than 2/3 of the cases at this school, Mom is the only parent. A significant number live with a grandparent or foster parent as well.)
The only cases where the kids are sent home for suspension are those involving drugs or weapons, and I don't think that the school has any choice in that matter - it's either a city or state law.
BTW, we met with the principal and made our point that an ethnic slur is an ethnic slur, and that the punishment for using one should be the same, no matter what the actual word might be. (I think I mentioned something about going up the food chain, which turned out to be unnecessary) The child who started this whole mess is cooling her heels today in IBS, because she has made a habit of baiting children into using that word. Her mother was made aware that this has happened several times, to kids other than my own, and agreed that this behavior needs to stop.
Today just happens to be the last school day before spring break. The kids will be separated, since the other girl is in IBS, and won't even get to go to the cafeteria for lunch (a lunch lady brings the food in to the kids). After that, they'll have a whole week's separation, and hopefully a chance to calm down.
DD, DH and I also had a talk over breakfast. We talked about the wisdom of sharing all your vacation plans and so forth in public. In a school where
3/4 of the kids are eligible for free breakfast and lunch, it's not a really smart idea to talk about your trips to Europe, or to the day spa as a birthday gift. She understands that no matter what the intentions, it does sound like bragging, and she needs to knock it off. After all, I don't think this kid targeted DD for no reason at all, and DD's "privileged" lifestyle seems as good a reason as any. (The other girl did mention that DD "has everything," which isn't too far off the mark)
It's odd how perceptions of wealth change. When DD was in elementary school, we were among the parents working very hard to pay tuition. Most of the cars dropping off children put my Honda to shame, and it was not unusual for kids to take a month off of school for a trip to Ireland. One friend of DD's used to go to her folks' condo in Cancun for every long weekend. Now that we're in the public school, we're supposedly the "rich" ones, even though our income has actually gone down over the past three years. I wonder where we'll be demographically in the fall, when DD goes to high school.
I feel a lot better this morning. Injustice of any kind makes me nuts, and this particular case hit all my hot buttons.
On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:02:39 -0400, DreamBeadr wrote (in message ):
I'm really proud that DD didn't rise to the bait and call the other girl a racial slur. It would have been so easy to trade horrible insults, because I know she has a temper just like mine. BTW, she really didn't get punished, she did have to apologize for using the "F" word. She got lots of hugs and comforting when she got home. It means a lot to DD to know that we are on her side.
I did get the situation straightened out, and from now on _all_ ethnic/racial slurs will result in the same punishment. It won't be an automatic five day suspension, either. (I thought that doling out punishments without considering the circumstances was pretty unfair as well) From now on, such incidents are going to be treated like other arguments, with both sides going to the office to discuss the problem. Once the adult in charge has a clear idea of what happened, penalties will be assigned to fit the circumstance.
Racial/ethnic jokes or catcalls will still be subject to the automatic suspension penalty, which is fine by me. As long as there's a clear understanding among everyone (staff and kids) what is and is not acceptable, and the penalties are understood beforehand, I'm right with the school in wanting to stop any racial or ethnic discord.
On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:58:32 -0400, roxan wrote (in message ):
One thing that helped DD in this circumstance was seeing how upset DH and I were at the whole thing. We talked about how different it was when we went to Sterling 30 years ago, and that we'd rather see the current system in place than the widespread racism that was the norm back then. We also explained that any "new" set of rules needs a little tweaking to work out situations that weren't considered when the rules were made.
DD also knew that both of us would be at the school today, making sure that her rights and the rights of the other kids would be protected. I told DD to come completely clean about any part she may have had in the dispute, because I didn't want any surprises when I was at the school to make a stink.
That's when I found out what precipitated the argument: the other girl wanted to sit at DD's lunch table, and DD was saving the only empty seat for a friend. The other girl became enraged, and called DD "an "F-ing" fat pig." (DD has recently lost a ton of weight and looks wonderful, but is very sensitive about weight comments)
My darling then responded, "I might be fat, but I can diet. You'll always be an "f-ing" assh*le, no matter what you do."
Told you I know my kid isn't Miss Perfect. And that sort of comeback is my daughter, 100%. Racial catcalls, no. Snappy and rude comebacks, absolutely. She is her mother's daughter.
I'm glad it's over, and I hope that DD and the other girl can work out a truce. I'd be happier if they could become friends, but I'll settle for keeping a polite distance.
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Karen_AZ" :
]he started out with "I've met ]with your DD's teachers and after school supervisors, and they feel she's ]over-sensitive about teasing and may have brought this on herself." I went ]ballistic.
so did i. when the bully was a gang-member threatening Jamie. the principle said, "i cannot guarantee your child's safety while she is in school," i hit the ceiling and told her "that's part of your job description, lady!" THEIR suggestion was to move JAMIE out of a class she liked and into one she didn't for the rest of the school term. since there was no "paper trail" on this particular child [on purpose], "they couldn't do anything".
as i said . . . i am SO glad my children managed to survive the school district - but it wasn't with the help of the various administrations!
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vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Kathy N-V :
]Your schools don't have IBS - In Building Suspension? We do.
no - and i certainly wish they did! what kind of punishment is being sent home to freedom?
]BTW, we met with the principal and made our point that an ethnic slur is an ]ethnic slur, and that the punishment for using one should be the same, no ]matter what the actual word might be. (I think I mentioned something about ]going up the food chain, which turned out to be unnecessary) The child who ]started this whole mess is cooling her heels today in IBS, because she has ]made a habit of baiting children into using that word. Her mother was made ]aware that this has happened several times, to kids other than my own, and ]agreed that this behavior needs to stop.
GREAT!
]DD, DH and I also had a talk over breakfast.
Also good. whether she was aware of it or not, it could have been the source of part of the problem. but - did ANYONE ever convince the other child 1 - she was eves dropping and 2 - she misunderstood what she heard?
]I feel a lot better this morning. Injustice of any kind makes me nuts, and ]this particular case hit all my hot buttons.
oh, good!!! **HUGS** [got more than a few of those button myself. and you don't want to get me started on some of them, really!]
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
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vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Kathy N-V :
]My darling then responded, "I might be fat, but I can diet. You'll always be ]an "f-ing" assh*le, no matter what you do."
ROTFLOL! i'm sorry, Kathy, but that's perfect. it's exactly what Jamie would have said, and soooooooooo you, too, somehow!
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
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And has obviously been reading history -- variations on that comment have been attributed to both Winston Churchill and W.C. Fields. But that doesn't mean it isn't still a good comeback!
What a little shit! It also sounds like she learned to be angry at home. ~~ Sooz
------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
Yeah -- totally inside-out eavesdropping. Would it help if some outside-of-school person sat the two down to have a supervised talk with each other? It's such a dumb thing to happen, and perhaps easily remedied by a tearful talk. ~~ Sooz
------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
Oh god, yes.....talking about one's vacation plans where others can overhear is like wearing a sign that says, "Burglarize me, I'm vacating my house soon!" anyway. Then people get upset when they come home and their house is ransacked and all the good stuff is stolen. What do they think would happen?
Those of you who say stuff like "I'm heading out to a vacation in ______ now!" here on RCB, you should really re-think this practice. It's just not a good idea. ~~ Sooz
------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
And we don't actually know who-all is reading here, either. ~~ Sooz
------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
I know what you mean. Over here on my side of the river, I feel well-off... even though my 1987 Volvo wagon is literally falling apart (we lost the antenna today, as if the muffler wasn't enough) and the house is... well, in need of work, still I feel rich. We just barely pay our bills each month, but we do pay them! We own a home and a car and have three kids and work for ourselves. This is wealth! But when I drop my daughter off at her school on the other side of the river, it's a different story. I didn't even know Mercedes MADE an SUV! It's ugly as sin, too... looks like an SS car. I'm not kidding, It sends chills up and down my spine whenever I see it.
One mom was talking in the hall about her ordeals in trying to decide on upholstery fabric, and another about how she was thinking about buying a catering business so she'd have something to do. Another was being lauded for being able to "make it" as a single mom... and as the story unfolded, I learned that she doesn't have to work, has only one child, and not only did her ex buy her a house, but he bought the one next door "to make the custody situation simpler".
Oh, poor thing! I can't imagine how she does it!
So I get to go from rich to poor to rich again ten times a week. I have told the kids that we're rich, because from my base perspective, we have everything.
Oh dear god -- do these exes live next door to each other?
I would die from puking round the clock. ~~ Sooz
------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links
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