Re: OT: help please.

I agree with this *completely*. You need to stabilize the internal stuff before you can make a useful judgment about the external stuff.

Deirdre

Thanks,

I will email you when I get home.

Now just to stick out hte rest of the day here... The lab guy gave me some stuff to do which I know will be useful, even if it isn't supposed to be "my job". (My job is pretty amorphous anyhow).

marisa2

Tante L>

Hang in there! Glad you have something to divert your attention. I look forward to hearing from you later!

• TL *

First of all, will you please, please stop being angry at yourself!!!!!! You have to be your own best friend here. Stop being so damned critical of your mistakes. I know for a fact you would not treat someone going through what you are going through the way you are treating yourself.

Secondly, you must, must, must seek out a decent counselor. You are seeing things as so black and white right now and you need someone to teach you to see things as more the shades of grey they really are.

I hope this helps. I know it's not simple, but you need some help.

Marisa, you and I have not chatted before, but I think I can give you another perspective here. You see, I was laid off at the end of June. I knew it was coming for almost 9 months. Quite a lot of that time was non-productive as my job winded down. I spent that time looking for another job (ok and looking at beady eye candy too). I went through a LOT of anger, a lot of denial and a lot of tears. I had been with that company for 8 years and my last day was practically on my anniversary date.

Now I've been home for almost 2 months and have not even gotten the first interview yet! I send resumes out almost every day, not one interview.

My point is this: don't leave your job until you have to. Use your free time wisely and to your own advantage, i.e. find another job if at all possible. Your purpose is to get paychecks as long as you can. Because the truth is, you don't know when your next paycheck will be if you walk out. And let me tell you, unemployment SUCKS. I have all the time in the world to shop and no money to spend.

Feel free to email me if you want to talk further.

Hope this helps,

Cheri (Bubbee to Emily and Nathan)

Marisa, I forward the ziplip mail through my domain account. Just so happens my domain email is down. If you've written, please resend your email to 1-oak at the ISP earthlink (.net). Ciao.

• TL *

I have been in therapy... my therapist keeps being out of town or missing appointments. I try not to take it personally because that would be insane, but it seems kind of a wierd coincidence that I have barely seen her since I got really bad. Also she didn't agree with my taking that time off or the program I was in then, but she hadn't really seen me so I don't think she really knows. Things haven't seemed the same with her since then.

Since I won't want to pay if I loose my job anyhow... I guess I'm sort of just letting that "relationship" die a natural death, since she doesn't call me back.

Probably I am supposed to find a new therapist but I really don't want to start up again.

I know... I kind of learned that at the program, but sometimes it is hard... so many people here have had such really serious things going on. Nothing particularly bad has ever happened to me (I mean, yeah, I have some issues with my parents, but who hasn't? They were pretty good parents all considered.). I do believe I have a chemical problem since there is no other explaination. Which is an indicator that medicine is the right way to go I guess (fix the chemical problem directly) but that just hasn't worked for me.

marisa2

Thanks...

I know this is true.

Another thing I'm mad at myself about.

Once again you are (correctly) reflecting back at me that I am doing things that I thought I had worked through, that I was beyond. I thought I could be so much more calm and realistic now (and it took a LOT of work for me to realize I was seeing things as black & white, because I like to think of myself as a thoughtful and well-reasoned person.)

marisa2

Cheri,

That sounds like exactly where I am heading.

Don't like to write too much details about work while I'm at work, but the non-productive time is part of what is driving me crazy. It makes me feel guilty and bored. And my boss keeps telling us how busy we are and how we have to make up "estimates" of what we are doing/planning to do. I know she is trying to save us. But it is hard... they told us we aren't doing development work, but we are supposed to be "working" on this next thing. How do we "work" on it if we aren't allowed to work on it?? Plus, the truth is they are probably going to cancel it soon anyhow, though everyone has their own oppinions and they won't tell us that. Other groups have layed people off and they are majorly overworked. It is unfair and ludecrous. Everything is so wierd, and it has been for 2 years, it is just getting worse and worse. I am quite sure that the November date is not because they have work for us till November, but because they can't lay off 500 people or more at a time at a location or they have to give more severance pay and probably there are other legal restrictions, and they are laying off people in other areas eveyr month until then. Meanwhile, supposedly they are only firing 20% in November, then another 10% in February. Supposedly no more then that and my actual fear is that I won't get laid off. (I know, you are telling me not to wish that. And even though it doesn't sound like I'm listening, I am. I need to hear this to stop myself from asking to be in the group that is layed off. I need to hear it often, every time I say "I just want to be layed off", which I say just about every day.)

I've been posting my resume on every (free) online job board I can find. So far all I get are head-hunters, other (pay) job-boards, and offers of money for very hokey-sounding things that do not involve my skill set at all ("be involved in the growing internet by spreading news by word of mouth". huh? "earn money in your own home by entering surveys". I'm already taking lots of surveys that you can get prizes for. I don't understand why I would pay someone to take more surveys.)

thanks,

marisa2

"Cheri2Star" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m20.aol.com...

On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 23:27:34 -0400, marisa2 wrote (in message ):

No. The questions that most companies will answer on a reference check are a quick, "yes, she worked here," and the dates of employment (maybe - sometimes they won't even give dates). Normally, you won't get anything beyond that, especially from a large company. The personnel staff member of your company probably doesn't even know you, but does know that anything she says can be used against her.

When I was a manager, we were forbidden to give references, because we could leave the company vulnerable to a lawsuit. Only the personnel department could give references, and all they would give is the information listed above. This happened in multiple companies, so I feel quite sure that it's a pretty common policy.

However, all bets are off if you apply to work for the government. As part of getting a security clearance, they will talk to everyone from your kindergarten teacher to every employer you ever had. (So I've been told)

Kathy N-V

Barbara,

Thanks for the advice.

I guess they are panic attacks... which in a way shows me that I've gotten SOMEWHAT better because I didn't start hyperventalating, didn't go into FULL fledged spiraling thoughts (that is, I didn't start with the fight with co-workers and QUITE end up envisioning dooming the world as a result of some chain-reaction, though I did get several steps beyond the rational consequences), and only got teary-eyed for a few seconds a couple of times.

I haven't been able to make any kind of meditation work (my thoughts just won't shut up), but going into the bathroom and doing some "incorrect thought replacement" instead of going in the bathroom to cry and fume and then being scared to leave the bathroom again because someone would see me like that, is a really good idea.

This afternoon I went to work out as I said (not an option if I am expected somewhere or am really busy) and then went in the lab where our lab-support guy was nice enough to come up with some things I could do to "help" him...also not an option most of the time (I'm sure he could always come up with stuff for me to do, but I may or may not actually have my own work to do again at some point. I used to go into the lab or the user area to work some times if I needed to be alone. Now our former user area is a holding area for Chineese trainees. Surprisingly (or maybe not, since I suspect that a lot of us don't have much to do but many people are more succesful at looking like they are doing something then I am), not too many people were in the lab today.

Another thing REALLY upsetting me is that everyone is pretty sure our lab-support/load-build guy is on the November list. Everyone is always blaming things on him. Having sat across from him for about a year, I KNOW how really busy he is and why he doesn't get to all the things on his list: because his list is impossibly long and he never says no. In that past that was a problem I had at work too, and people were sympathetic to me about it (or seemed to be) and my boss seemed to believe me, while she never seems to quite believe him. It REALLY makes me mad. He works really hard and does a good job. He makes a lot of mistakes...usually after he's stayed up all night working. He always has a good attitude at work (unlike myself and many others, I may add) and is really pleasant to talk to and work with.

I know I have to not get myself in an uproar about everyone else's buisness but it really makes me so mad at the way people blame him for things, and also mad at myself for somehow tricking my boss into thinking I'm so great when I don't work anywhere near as hard or with such a good attitude, and for some reason she really likes me (she has said so, and also was REALLY nice about my medical leave (she must've guessed the nature of the problem, but my story at work was the opposite of the descrimination many of the other people in the partial-hospital program faced.)).

Wow, I am really rambling here. Sorry. Should go to sleep. My insomnia appears to have mostly gone away, though about once every couple of weeks I get myself all worked up and can't sleep. The new issue is that whatever amount of sleep I miss at hte beginning of the night, gets tacked on in the morning. I just plain can't wake up. So now I'm already in trouble for tomorrow....

marisa2

I have had problems with severe clinical depression (I'm bi-polar, actually) for over 20 years, and I completely related to what you are saying. Remember that what you feel is what you feel, and that alone makes it valid.

here? I can't figure out

As several have said, being there gives you structure, and that can be very important. Without some kind of structure, it's very easy to find yourself sleeping all day, or watching "Taxi" reruns at 4:00 a.m.

Marisa, this is a REAL problem, because it's YOUR problem. It is real to you. Many of my friends -- for whom working in spite of any problem is not an issue -- can't really understand why it is that I sometimes withdraw from my everyday life because I simply can't face other people. It's a real and legitimate "can't" not a "don't want to."

If you don't have a therapist that you trust and can work with, find a new one. I've had horrible luck with therapists, other people have click with the first therapist they meet with. If money is an issue, check out your area's public mental health system (I have had as good of luck there as I have had in private practice). Consider clinical social workers. If you live near a university, see if they have interns who work under supervision -- they may be very inexpensive or even free.

Talk to your general practioner about medication to treat depression. If you had a bad experience, you might have been on the wrong meds. It took me several different meds and a few years to find the combination that worked for me.

On a practical level -- make sure you are getting enough -- but not too much! -- sleep, with predictable retiring and arising times. Get regular exercise, and eat a balanced diet. Drink plenty of water, cut down on coffee and sugared sodas. These are hard steps to take if you are depressed, believe me I know! But the better you can follow them at all, you'll be amazed at the impact they can have on your mood. Journalling helps you, too.

Most of all, take care of yourself, and stay in touch with people who care about you. We're always willing to listen.

With love and blessings,

Jewitch

And exercise. It increases blood circulation, oxygen to the brain.

Tina

be here? I can't figure out

On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 3:19:45 -0400, Christina Peterson wrote (in message ):

Yup. Try to get out in the sunshine and fresh air at lunchtime. When things were hairy at work, I could really clear my head by spending my entire lunch hour walking. On the way back to the office, I'd pick up a couple of pieces of fruit or I'd stash a bag lunch in my desk. It really helped to get out of the pressure cooker and into the world.

Another thing that really helped me was to give myself small rewards for making it through another week at work. I'd buy a bouquet of flowers for my desk, or an iced chai latte, or a bag of jellybeans to share with my cow orkers. Each Friday, I'd reward myself in some small way.

On Mondays, my reward for coming in for another week was to grab a bunch of cow orkers and walk to my favorite burrito cart at lunchtime. The walk to/from the burrito cart was almost exactly a half hour, so we had an additional half hour to grab a conference room and spend some time bonding. (otherwise known as bitching)

I know that not everyone finds comfort in religion, but I find the structure and beauty of the Catholic Mass to be quite soothing. I found a Catholic church that was only a block away from the office that held a Mass every day at 12:10 (to give office workers ten minutes to get there). I'd often go and participate in the familiar ritual, and leave feeling like a new person. There was also a Buddist temple that was even closer, and I'd sit and absorb the calm feelings on rainy days.

In case you haven't realized it, I was creating my own structure, on my own terms, to help me live through the chaos that was work. The difference was that the structure I created was built entirely on things that I knew were good for me, and not necessarily good for the company. I didn't do anything bad for the company, I just stopped letting the week's layoff list control my emotions.

For me, the hardest part was knowing that my name wasn't on the list -- I got the unenviable task of laying off people every Thursday. I was deemed "essential," and stayed until the bitter, bitter end. Did you know that companies keep on a couple of people to sell the desks and equipment, turn off the utilities and give the keys to the landlord? That was me.

At one time, there were 300 people in my department. One day, close to the end, I looked up over this football field of an office, and realized that there were only two of us there. We had each turned on one overhead light, the one over our cubicles. The whole place was dark, with the exception of these two lights. It was at that moment it hit me - all those years and all those people, and it was just gone. I really needed my walk that day.

Anwyay, I know it's hard to make the distinction, but Lucent owns your time during the work day, but they don't own *you.* There are plenty of things you can do to give yourself structure, and to fill in the down time when there's nothing to do. (Write a killer resume, for example. But please be discreet, even if everyone else isn't) Find a web site that will teach you a new skill: learning something makes you feel as if your brain hasn't completely stagnated.

You don't have to give your power away, you can claim it and hold it close. It's hard, but you have to do it. Your survival depends on it.

Kathy N-V

More good advices...thanks...

*Lsorta* I used to be able to watch Taxi reruns at 4 AND go to work...now, if I stay up till 11, I can't get up in the morning. I guess this is better. (Especially since they replaced all the reruns with infomercials!)

marisa2

be here? I can't figure out

KathyNV, This was such a good post. My husband worked for a company with 800 people. The same thing happened there. It was so sad and so unnecessary. Someone had bought them out and then they ran this thriving company straight into the ground, taking everyone with it. We felt am immense amount of anger, powerlessness, fear. He was in the third cut of people. It hurt him to be deemed "nonessential" when he had given so much to the place.