Re: Dear Red States

Which school are you talking about? Victoria

And you should cringe, but you should not assume that it is true of all schools.

I don't disagree.

I have trouble, though, with a complaint that sounds like it's about "colleges these days" when it is really about a few institutions. The things you are saying are not true of the college where I teach and they are not true of the college from which my mother graduated in

Elizabeth

I I think you have no idea at all what is involved in an independent study which is a misnomer in that the student actually works closely with a faculty member to identify the materials to be studied and the means by which the student will be evaluated. But that's ok. I've never known you to let ignorance stand in the way of your opinions.

Elizabeth

I love that thought " I've never known you to let ignorance stand in the way of your opinions." I think it would be marvelous on a sampler.

Then you give it to the person of course lol

Where did I say that - and I stick to my complaint. AND that I would not send my daughter to where I went. Their standards have lowered to a laughable point.

How about the continued presence of places that like the handful of places I'm speaking is blight on all decent schools. Local "college lecturer" has a grant to "allow for further integration of art into the science curriculum". SAY WHAT\

C

I think you implied that colleges in general are no longer doing a good job when you said this in response to my comment about my mother's degree:

I#'ll bet her degree was a lot more structured than what is being done today. #And had a few papers to write... #C

I have several times prompted you to make a less general statement but you haven't, so what else am I supposed to think but that you think that all colleges are doing a bad job today? You also made a comment about lowered standards which appeared to be a general appraisal.

It doesn't matter. I'm taking this whole discussion very personally, so I'm done.

Elizabeth

Now I'm done.

Elizabeth

Please don't take it personally. If I had the time, I'd love to sit in and listen to your courses. Don't think I could do the work anymore though....

But when it comes to "independent studies"....in my mind it comes down to not only how much effort the student puts into it, but the quality of the advisor. You, yourself have told me about fellow professors that put the minimum of effort and expect the same level of recognition you get for your huge effort.

Cheryl

Yeah, but I guess I see those people as the exception and it feels like they're being held up as typical rather than exceptional.

Elizabeth

I know my current experience is limited to New England College, SNHU and Chester (local places where I know a fair number of both profs and current students) and you are the exception and have attracted the regard of the other exceptions. You really don't want to know the total lack of interest these people have in their assigned students, because they get in the way of research or "my art". And the lack of respect these kids have for most of their "lecturers". BTW - the one UNH Manchester prof, we know is very dedicated.

I do know one professor at SNHU who is very dedicated, but yes, a lot of institutions reward their faculty for research or creative endeavors rather than for teaching. Colleges that focus on teaching tend to get trashed as "not real schools." It's unfortunate, but I know that if I had a child of college age, I would be looking at the Clarks, Marlboros, Springfield Colleges, and the Plymouth States and the Fitchburg States rather than at the UMasses, the UNH's, the UVMs. I went to Tufts because it was billed as a liberal arts college, but I could name on less than one hand the faculty who knew me by name when I graduated (magna cum laude), because it's actually a research university. It all depends on what you're looking for. In my case, I should have chosen more carefully, but I turned out ok.

Elizabeth

I think there can be a balance of teaching and research. Not entirely sure how to do it though.

After DS narrows it down to about 20, I'll talk to you...

Cheryl

snipped-for-privacy@mindspring.com wrote: > I do know one professor at SNHU who is very dedicated, but yes, a lot

There must be a happy medium somewhere. I also went to a research-oriented university (Johns Hopkins), and teaching was not at that time given much priority at all. I remember the students organizing to try to save the job of one of the Poly Sci profs who was a terrific and inspirational teacher; he didn't get tenure in spite of student efforts. (He did publish, but apparently his national reputation based on research didn't measure up.) I think it's changed somewhat now, but I don't know for sure. I didn't encourage my children to go there.

I think we did find a happy medium for DD, who went to New College of Florida. They had a great program that balanced research with real quality teaching and mentoring relationships between faculty and students. It's a gem of a school. Places like that do exist, but it takes real searching.

Sue

I don't believe that anyone can truly teach well if they're not doing research. But doing research doesn't mean "writes a top rated book every year or so." It might not mean ever writing a book. It does mean keeping up with ones field. All of my colleagues do research and most of them make teaching a priority, but because our names aren't constantly in the public eye, we don't get the prestige that a lot of other colleges get.

Elizabeth

A friend of mine from grad school teaches at the New College. She was at UNC Chapel Hill, but was denied tenure for not having published enough in spite of having a very well recieved book published by Columbia University Press. She's much happier at New College.

Elizabeth

There's a book called "Colleges that Change Lives" that's worth a gander.

Elizabeth

I agree. I don't care if she wrote it or not, it is offensive to those in red or blue states and she shouldn't have posted it.

This and she (and a few others) is why I don't read this group often. I would read this more often if the subjects were stitching related instead of posts that are intended to offend people.

Why don't we try to keep our posts related to stitching and kind in nature. There is enough hate in this world that we don't need posts whether "it's satire/humor" or not. Go to a satirical group and post this trash there.

Once again, I will return to lurking and seldom read this group.

Sorry to those of you who are offended by this post.

Marianne

I agree with the kind part but I find it interesting to discuss non needlework related topics as well. Often i find them interesting,informative and some entertaining. So if post are marked OT well people can skip them. My only beef is that the headers don't often get changed when it rambles into a new topic. Ruby