Re: OT: Bill Moyers on Obama

Thanks, Elizabeth, for the quick response. I grew up on the border of Texas and Mexico, and while the Hispanic population was not always treated as fairly as it should have been, it was not considered black in the sense that the African-American population was.

I am, alas, able to remember when gas stations had three restrooms. The schools weren't segregated in my home town but that was probably because our black population was so small. I certainly know the historicity of calling someone black if they looked the slightest bit "un-white", if you will pardon the term. And of course if Mr. Obama sees himself as black then that answers my question.

But in the larger scheme, what is a person who is split 50-50? Black? White? Half empty? Half full? It seems to me that one of his attributes is that he is a combination and therefore can reach out to both sides of this division.

Pat

snipped-for-privacy@m>> Without meaning to stir anything up, I keep wondering why he is called

Yes, but that person can also be rejected by both sides as not being "one of them," unfortunately. Obama is not considered white by most white Americans and there are also African-Americans who are quick to point out that he is half Kenyan, not half African-American.

It's complex, as you know.

Elizabeth

Some places had a "one drop" rule, which said that *any* black ancestry at all meant one was black. Some were able to "pass" by virtue of not appearing black, but had they been discovered, no amount of white ancestry would have protected them.

After all, those who treat people differently based on their race aren't going around surveying people to find out their genetic history before treating them differently. They're reacting to what they *see*, and in Obama's case, they *see* a black man, albeit a fairly light-skinned one. Where racial discrimination exists, having some white ancestry does not confer immunity. The whole point of racial discrimination is that it isn't particularly based on any sort of deep analysis of someone's inherent character, past actions, or experience ;-) It's just based on outwardly visible racial characteristics, and the assumptions people make based on them.

Best wishes, Ericka

So - what's it mean, "nobody knows what to do with her"? Does everyone have to fall into a neat little 'race' pigeonhole? Why get hung up on it?

Oh, for the day when the races have blended into one 'cosmic' race and this type of discussion will not have reason to happen. Maybe centuries away, but we can imagine it, (thank you, John Lennon.)

I believe I read somewhere that by the middle of this millennium all humans (if there are any left) will be a cafe au lait colour with dark eyes. So it will come in due course.

Believe me, we (her family) are not hung up on anything - but there are others who obviously notice that she is not "white". I have no idea why there have to be neat little "race" pigeonholes. I only report what I have observed.

And I don't believe for a minute that some sort of "cosmic" race will bring an end to these sorts of discussions because there will always be variances and humans will always notice them and act on them. Or at least comment on them.

Pat > >> And my DDIL is Hispanic but has very light skin and hazel eyes, so

But there will be all shades of cafe au lait. Want to bet that won't be a basis for racism?

It isn't a homogeneous skin color that will save us - it will be teaching our children and their children and so on that it doesn't matter. And I know you already know that and I'm preaching to the choir! : )

Pat > >

It wasn't a landslide in the popular vote and I'm still not convinced that we won't end up with Biden as president.

Elizabeth

It would be a terrible indictment if that happened, I hope it doesn't. I do think it is near impossible for any sort of security to prevent everything. Here's hoping.

I think it would be an awful thing if it happened, but the fact that one person (or a few people) could do something like that would not erase the fact that we as a society elected him in the first place. The election gives me hope for our future even if I don't think we're far enough along to really get full benefit from it.

Elizabeth

DH did say that he certainly does not envy the Security detail assigned to Pres(elect) Obama. I sure as hell hope nothing happens, but think of JFK! He was supposed to be answering to "the Pope". That was not the general opinion, but some bigots believed it.

I really hope that Obama can accomplish a more unified congress and government. I am sick and tired of all the partisan fighting.

IF something tragic happens, I will bet a a dollar to a donut that is not from a registered gun!

DH has a collection of handguns, and enjoys going to the range with his son. He also looks on it as a personal protection unit (OK, I am not enthused on that). However, they are all bought legally, he has the State permits , concealed weapons permit etc etc. I don't know if Fred reads this, but it really is a very thorough background check to have such a license. It takes many weeks, and is not cheap. Jim just wanted to be legal.

Gill

You forgot to mention being a Democrat.

Elizabeth

Is it that the light skinned think they're superior, or perhaps that the darker skinned feel inferior?? Taking U.S. history into consideration, my bet is on the latter.

J.

I am sure Jim can see things have changed though, the thought of the potus in an open car, driving along in such a manner, would not happen now, unless there were no opportunities for snipers.

That would be nice, I always hope that will be the way with our Parliament (and the British one) but it rarely is.

Fred will probably feel the same way as me, we don't want guns running around here and our tragedy is that there are so many in the US we can't entirely stop it. For every Jim with a legal gun and careful use there are hundreds of illegal Saturday Night Specials. Worst of all, kids kill kids with carelessly stored hand guns and didn't I hear some incredibly young kid just killed his uncle and father ? In one of the southern states and they said on CBC (the state police) that his motive wasn't clear !

Yes, the continent is from Egypt to South Africa.

SA was the country of apartheid. No you are not the only one who remembers, I used to take my kids in their stroller/pushchair to Boycott South Africa marches. At that point SA had nice wines for one that really took a nose dive as a result.

I can well remember my husband, who was Royal Navy, playing cricket for the same against a SA team when my lot marched through the middle protesting apartheid. You just don't (well you didn't then) violate cricket with a protest. Afterwards he said to me, 'I saw you in the march with the children' and I said 'Well I didn't come over and give you a kiss or identify you in any way' lol

I also, around the same time, used to join big marches for the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament.

I nearly joined a protest when GWB came to Halifax but didn't in the end so I guess my last protest was back in the 80s in support of Pro-Choice.

Not yet, though there are so many name changes, many utterly needless and ridiculous, that it's only a matter of time. It's still a country, only part of the continent of Africa.

Joyce in RSA

Um, Vic - did you now become the usenet etiquette police? Not that I particularly like this thread, but not everyone reads this daily, and sometimes people are scrolling through, find something that they feel like responding to, and do. It's USENET, not a moderated list.

If you don't want to read some old topic - why not just skip it? I know that I'm one of the people that goes through intermittent bouts of no time/opportunity for RCTN, and then I'm back around. I scan thru, and try to stay current, but you never know - sometimes I might find something from a week or 2 back. Doesn't mean my remarks are going to be read, and I do try to be judicious. But, at the same time, some people may not see everything in the header, or notice it as they're doing Newsgroup reading. Maybe a more gracious thing would be to ask people to indicate they're re-addressing an older topic - like putting something in the subject line to modify it, say "Redux" or "Old Topic" or "Last Month's..."

If you don't want your older posts to be answered, you may be able to set them so they disappear from the server at a certain time - I know that I can do those settings.

Ellice

Got it - must've been e-mail - didn't think you were taking on the role of disciplinarian.... ;^)

Ellice