***Very OT*** CHRISTMAS ***OT***

Yes PLEASE!

Pat P

I picked up a bag of Kisses and a bag of bells to toss a few of each into the EGA exchange gift bag. Come on down, and you can share the leftovers.

Nanny nanny phoo phooo on you, too. :)

Precisely. My Jewish friends gave me presents and I gave them presents, and really the only consideration was to try to use a neutral gift wrap. Candy canes were good, winter scenes were good, a "Chanukah bush" if you were desperate (many of my Jewish friends DO put up a Chanukah bush). Just stay away from the full religious impact of the season: no manger scenes on the gift wrap, use the postal service's non-religious Christmas stamp on the card (this year, it's cookies, four different stamps: Santa, angel, and a more ambiguous snowmen and gingerbread men). Not a problem, just made sure that my Jewish friends got the snowmen on their envelopes. My cards aren't overly religious anyway, though they do say "Christmas" rather than "Holidays".

As you say, mostly they just need guidance of what's appropriate: if they come from a culture where you impoverish yourself to give gifts, they do need to be instructed that gold and diamonds aren't appropriate for co-workers. If their culture requires overtly religious gifts for their religious festivals, they simply need to be educated that it's not necessary to give Bibles for Christmas.

Watching "Seventh Heaven" last night, the two houseguests described themselves as not Christians, but "Christmasites"; didn't know diddly-squat about the holiday beyond getting presents. And that's sometimes the hard thing for non-Christians to grasp, that many of the people who celebrate Christmas know nothing about the religious origins, all they know is Santa/tree/presents. They don't want a Bible or a piece of religious jewelry for Christmas -- they'd prefer chocolate. What Christmas has become in America (presents, more presents, Frosty the Snowman, more presents, big dinner, more presents) is pretty far removed from the nationwide religious observations that some of the immigrants are used to.

Yes, absolutely yummy. And I like a bit of cinnamon in there too. Dawne

That sounds like something nice to try.

Whilst on the subject of sprouts, if you like them crunchy, like we do, DON`T bother cutting the little crosses in the bottom - that`s been done for years when people (like my Mum) boiled them to death then pressed a saucer down on them to get rid of the excess liquid!!! (Which had been added to by entering the cross cuts).

Pat P

Ooh - I like the sound of that! Must try it next time.

Pat P

But you know the other end of that quote is "candy is dandy."

I've had squares of Philadelphia Cream Cheese dipped in dark chocolate and it was yummy.

Lucille

Tia Mary ,,,, Maybe i am naive , but when your mind should be full of beautiful thoughts about this Holy Feast. And flooded with love while making the presents, for your beloved Grandchildren!! How can you at the same time, use such foul languge towards Ericka, Who just had a different opinion, than other here have ? mirjam

Give me a few days!

Cheryl

I have no problem with people having a difference of opinion or

**discussing** those differences but my patience only goes so far. What finally got me so irritated was the fact that, once again, the point of a post was totally ignored and the respondent went off in a different direction while accusing the original poster of doing something negative. Pat P said something about how SHE might feel (not someone else but herself) in a given situation. Ericka's responding post totally ignored that fact and asked Pat if it was OK to hurt someone else's feelings. At this time of year, I am more concerned in trying to do something positive for those who are having to "do without". I'm not overly worried about those of us who are able to care for ourselves. Since I am not a terribly religious person, I don't get too concerned with how others want to celebrate the holiday as long as they don't try to tell me how to celebrate. I certainly don't hold out any warm, fuzzy feeling for people who choose the holiday season as a reason to start another endless round of arguments. Now, I do usually try not to use too much "vernacular" when I post but this time I simply didn't feel like being politically correct. Saying someone would "bitch if you hung 'em with a new rope" is one of our "family" sayings used when someone complains about most anything said. I suppose using the word "bitch" in reference to something other than a breeding female canine could be considered foul language by some. As for urinating up a rope -- that's not at all foul -- crude perhaps but not foul. Even if I had used the vernacular and said go piss up a rope, it still wouldn't be considered foul. Use of the dreaded "F" word would be foul and I don't use that king of language in my posts. CiaoMeow >^;;^<

Tia Mary , I don`t think anything you wrote here , justified the language you used in this Rude letter. And you Should apologize to Both Ericka and all who had to read this. You might think that your `Family` sayings are Ok ,,, Maybe in your family , but this is an international Ng, and it is foul languaguage , which to my feeling lower the meaning of any Holiday activity one does whether it is Religious or Secular. mirjam

Fine -- be offended, I can't control what you or anyone else thinks is offensive. I'll say what everyone else says -- you don't like what I write, then block me. I don't block anyone and if I don't like what I read and I feel like responding, then I do so. My language was certainly no where near as offensive as can be heard any night on the telly in this country. In Europe, nudity and sexual situations are common; in the States strong language is common. CiaoMeow >^;;^<

Karen C - California wrote: And that's

Has anybody else been reading "Boondocks" the past few days? I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.

This was in today's paper and I found it a good reflection:

(I'm including full text so you don't have to register to see the website. So annoying!)

Silent night, holy night

By Cal Thomas

December 14, 2005

ARLINGTON, VA. -- The effort by some cable TV hosts and ministers to force commercial establishments into wishing everyone a "Merry Christmas" might be more objectionable to the one who is the reason for the season than the "Happy Holidays" mantra required by some store managers.

I have never understood why so many Christians feel the need to see and hear "Merry Christmas" proclaimed to them at stores by people who might not believe its central message.

While TV personalities, junk mail letters and some of the ordained bemoan the increasing secularization of culture, perhaps some teaching might be helpful from the one in whose behalf they claim to speak.

Jesus - the real one, not the Republican-conservative-Democrat-liberal one made in the image of today's fractured political culture - said his kingdom is not of this world. Why, then, are so many who claim to speak for him demanding that this earthly kingdom celebrate him and his kingdom?

The Apostle John warned, "Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world - the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does - comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever" (1 John 2:15-17).

Let's see: Should the crass commercialization of "Christmas" and the focus on accumulating and giving stuff (each sold separately; batteries not included) be part of this indictment? Even a casual observer or biblical illiterate might reasonably draw such a conclusion.

The classic Christmas carol "O Little Town of Bethlehem," composed in

1868 by Phillips Brooks and Lewis H. Redner, rebukes those who have transformed Christmas from what it is into what it is not. This rebuke is not to the "world" and the way it has cashed in on Christmas, but to those who are committing spiritual adultery by embracing the world while simultaneously claiming fealty to their "first love."

About Bethlehem, Mr. Brooks says, "How still we see thee lie." There is nothing "still" about the cacophony surrounding the modern Western observance of Christmas. How about this verse: "How silently, how silently, the wondrous gift is giv'n." Oh, that the shouters would become silent and let the only voice that matters speak for himself.

I do not care if a mall employee wishes me a "Merry Christmas" or not, or if mall managers favor snowpersons over manger scenes, or erect trees they call "holiday" and not "Christmas." It isn't about their observing this event, giving us a "religious rush" and creating a false sense of security that culture is better than it is. It is about people who believe in this historic event observing it in a way that recalls the birth of the Savior of the world (not the savior of the bottom line): silently, wondrously and worshipfully.

Let the world get drunk at its office parties. Let it consume material things, pile up credit card debt and embrace other trappings of this counterfeit "Christmas" road show. I prefer the "original cast."

Another carol, less familiar but even more to the point:

Let all mortal flesh keep silence,

and with fear and trembling stand;

ponder nothing earthly-minded,

for with blessing in his hand,

Christ our God to Earth descendeth,

our full homage to demand.

We should expect that homage only from those who "believe on his name," not from the Santa Claus worshippers.

Cal Thomas' syndicated column appears Wednesdays in The Sun. His e-mail is at

I expect not. If this thing runs a normal course, I'll have chest congestion tomorrow and won't be able to run, so won't go to agility class with the boys.

Elizabeth

. Pat its not noisy. I saw an interview with him, and the music is done on an FM band, so you only hear it on the radio of your car.

-Margaret

A little of both, I suspect

Cheryl

When i was a small girl and would do or say something , my mother or teachers didn`t like, and i used this childish excuse of " Everybody else [in class , on street] does it or says it",,,the answer ususlly was ;"And if everybosy will jump of a cliff ? will you jump as well ?". writing that Everybody does it , Doesn`t take away from your [supposedly] grwon up responsibilty, to the things you say, Don`t wonder later when your kids and grandkids will use foul language or misbehave ,,,, If that is your excuse ... Where is self controll , and manners ??? mirjam