9/11, sewing, and off topic thoughts

Tom, I couldn't find a current email so here it is posted, thank you for your eloquence, and depth of expression. Preaching to the choir here, but I appreciate the energy that you put into this. I hope you don't mind us sharing your thoughts, with due credit of course.

Penny S

Well said Wanda! I have thoroughly enjoyed this newsgroup for a long time. I don't post much but have learned alot. Frankly, I'm getting tired of the political barbs on this list towards Republicans and those of any political affiliation who support our good President.

Please, I understand not everyone thinks alike...but can't we keep this off politics? I get enough of it everyday. I come here to relax, not to get a pitch for a particular candidate.

Cindy in WV

<<snipped to a point>>

<<more snipping>>

Bush has been out here a few times and never once has he appeared in a true public forum. He's coming out again this week to visit a private convention. Then Kerry will be here two days later, at the same convention. Both closed to the public, although Kerry's last visit was public. Nader shows up at the public libraries when he visits and will talk one-on-one as time permits. He also takes questions from the audience.

A loyalty oath to whom or to what? If it is to Bush, that is a very scary thing to contemplate. I go with the Mark Twain angle: "Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it."

................cut..... I beg you to please vote .........cut...........

...cut...

I do not like that you attacked her by saying she cannot see straight. I also do not like that you have set yourself up as being more supportive of troops and implying that she does not care for them to come home. Whether or not you agree with her comments, your remarks were out of line. An apology would not out of line.

I plan to vote ... and I keep my plans to myself. Meantime, I am sewing. How about you? PAT in VA/USA

I grant my permission to redistribute my original message,

*unaltered*. I recognize that many people (like, for example, "atom1") will try to twist my words for harm. Let it be understood that if my words are distributed unaltered, they can stand for themselves, but if I find they've been altered, I will pursue whoever changed my words to the full extent of what remains of the law.

Jingoism: (noun) Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism.

I was born free. I will always be free.

Someone I know is selling tote bags with the fourth amendment printed on them. She's had to have a new batch printed. There is still hope.

Tom

On 2004-09-12 snipped-for-privacy@cetinvalid.com said: >Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles.sewing,alt.sewing >I.E.Z. wrote: >> "Wanda Moody" snipped-for-privacy@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message >> news:OY41d.355032$ snipped-for-privacy@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... >>> I have been visiting this newsgroup quite some time, and have >>> thoroughly enjoyed it. However, this message and responses has >>> turned my stomach so much I had to respond. I get enough bias >>> reporting from the media and it was so nice to get on the sewing >>> newsgroups and forget all the world's troubles. I am very proud >>>of our troops over seas and believe me they don't think our >>>President Bush is wrong. And yes, I am for President Bush. >> BUT >>> I don't think this is the place to give your political views. I >>>am not so sure I can even keep visiting this group, right now I >>>am so upset I can't see straight. You see I am a military wife >>>and I know what fears and sleepless nights all relatives and >>>loved ones go through while our sons, daughters, spouses, >>>friends, brothers and sisters go through while our military >>>loved one is protecting our country. And just to end this, all >>>of you that think President Bush is wrong, why don't you go over >>>seas and try and talk to the terrorists that are killing our >>>sons and daughters and beheading the innocent people? Wanda >> I'm with Tom, all the way. Well said Tom! It turns MY stomach >>to think that so many people are so buffaloed by this corrupt >> administration that they can't see the forest for the trees. Yes, >>I think President Bush is wrong. And I DO NOT want my son going >>to Iraq and dying for nothing. Yes, for nothing. Absolutely >>nothing except the Bush Family Ego and the Cheney Family Fortune. >>It's a shame the country is so polarized, but it is. And it is >>Bush's fault. I get upset too. But you are right Wanda, you >>can't see straight. Open your eyes. This country is so messed >>up, now and for the future, that I despair daily. I support the >>troops as much as you Wanda. Maybe more because I want them home. >> The Bush policies of making enemies of most of the world and >>stomping into other countries because we think we know what's >>good for them has to stop. Iraq had nothing to do with 911. The >>invasion was based on lies. Lies, lies, lies. Money that could >>be spent on people here is being squandered over there, enriching >>big corporations like Halliburton. Bush says he supports troops >>then cuts military benefits. Free speech suppressed. No-fly >>(aka "enemies") lists. Media just about all controlled by >right-wing corporations. >

Tom Willmon,Mountainair, (mid) New Mexico, USA

Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Registered

We do have to remember that this is an *international* forum, and that our US political issues don't necessarily reflect the interests of everyone who posts/reads here.

That said, I have to also point out that we've had some ridiculously off-topic (but often fascinating) subjects here: gall bladder surgery, travel stories, cooking/recipes, and on, and on. This is a true community, one in which no two people are alike, and in which we have a vast supply of interesting and creative minds. I don't always agree with some of the sewing posts either (Tom Farrell's ban on pressing, for instance), but it doesn't have to get personal.

Let's do our own little part towards world peace, shall we?

Thanks for listening, Karen in Ohio

Hear! Hear! Well said, Tom. Vote absentee if you live in a state using the Diebold machines. That way there _is_ a paper record. We have an electronic voting machine here that gives the option of a printed ballot. You have to request it, but once you do, it prints and you can see it before you leave the machine. What it doesn't have is any privacy. The screen can be seen and read from across a large room, and the only nod to privacy is two "wings" on the sides.

Yes. In order to be admitted into Bush's presence in any of his appearances, you have to sign an oath of loyalty to him.

Just yesterday I saw a photo on the web, showing someone who snuk in to protest... in the photo, she was being dragged out. By her hair.

Tom

Good. It's about time that people in this country start feeling uncomfortable.

Yes, it's really terrible how Fox News is in the Republicans pocket, isn't it?

Really? That's not what I'm hearing. Of course, the military ordered soldiers to stop posting their opinions on the web after so many of them expressed their low morale, fear, and anger about their circumstances...

You're right. It isn't. That's why I labeled this discussion "off topic". If you don't like it, set your killfile to delete off-topic messages.

I resent your implication that my opposition to Mr. Bush has anything at all to do with my opinions about the fine men and women who are serving our country in uniform. If anything, you may note that I complained about the cutting of veterans' benefits by the current administration. I could also complain about the cuts to pay and benefits to many currently serving military personnel. Perhaps these may even have effected your family?

It's illegal for ordinary citizens to attempt to perform diplomacy on behalf of the United States, and Mr. Bush doesn't want me in uniform, so I guess I really can't, now can I?

And moreover, I very deeply resent your implication that my lack of support for Mr. Bush in any way equates to a lack of support for fighting terrorism. It's precisely this kind of nonsense that is destroying this country. It is not unpatriotic to disagree. It is not disloyal to believe that someone else would better fill the role of President. I believe Mr. Bush has done an extremely poor job of fighting the "War on Terrorism". I'd like to see someone else have a go, in part because I'd like to see your husband home safe, and I believe a different president would give him a better chance.

Tom

Amen.

Thank you for disagreeing with me politely.

Tom

"Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't.  You cannot shirk this and be a man.  To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and excusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may." - Mark Twain

Any time one encounters difficulty at the polling place, one should request to speak with the Chief Officer of Election at the site. Speak up and ask for more privacy. If not satisfied, ask to speak to the Chairman of the County (or Town, City, Etc.) Electoral Board. You might have to wait as she or he travels over the district during the polling hours. (I am referring to the USA, as I do not know about voting elsewhere.)

BTW to everyone: working the polls anywhere is serious and tiring work ... I'd like to ask everyone to try to have a nice word for the workers. If you forget your identification or go to the wrong polling station, please do not snarl at the workers. Find out before your election day just when, where, and how you will vote. Check on the identification requirements. Find out now about registration, so you won't miss out. Remember, if you live in a place that has elections, you are very fortunate. Many in the world do not!

PAT in VA/USA PS: Excuse me. Yes, this is cross posted, but I do not know the forum where Pogonip is posting. I'm at RCTS.

...CUT...

Wanda did NOT implicate that you do not care about the troops. She simply stated that she has first hand experience with what the family members experience.

...CUT...

Again, Wanda did not imply ANYTHING about your support for fighting terrorism. She ONLY stated HER opinions!! She is just as entitled to express her ideas as you are. PAT

They get counted here. Numbers are even released.

I disagree with Tom and am sorry he felt the need to br>

Another person here locally who says she was undecided was stopped from getting tickets when one of the Bush workers said she'd seen her at a protest. The woman involved denies she was ever in a protest, but isn't sure and wanted to hear what the president had to say for himself. No go. She was kicked out of the ticket office.

It is both frightening and sickening.

Iris

It counts, sorta. They count the ballots, then if the absentee ballots might change the outcome of the election they will do it. Saving your tax dollars in action. (rolling eyes)

I don't vote absentee any more ever since I found that out.