Happy Channukah

First thought to her post was "Oy Veh!"

Ah well, not everyone can have the same cultural knowledge of the world I guess.

Caryn (who never did care for the latkes!)

LOL -Oy Vey is eright. The holiday indeed is served by a food cooked in oil which ties to the miracle of the oil in the lamp lasting the 8 days/nights. However - "traditional" foods served for Chanukah to the best of my knowledge are latkes - the potato variety and chocolate for the kids.

*I found this nice tidbit of info: Latkes are potato pancakes that are cooked by frying the mixture of grated potatoes, eggs, onions and flour in vegetable oil. By deep-frying, latkes become crisp and are served hot with applesauce or sour cream. The Maccabbee battlefield soliders used to eat latkes made from cheese, vegetables, or fruits. *

There is also essentially a sweet, bloblike kind of jelly donut called "Sufganiyot" which you find in some places. I've always imagined that one of the things with Potato Pancakes is WRT dietary rules - they can be eaten with dairy or meat meals.

Essentially, the "pancakes" are eaten in memory of the Macabees, and as a dish prepered hurriedly before going into battle. There is also cheese eaten in honor of the widow Judith who killed some Syrian general, IIRC. Hence, while I guess the latkes shape was also a symbol of the cheesecakes which Judith served and led to her victory - they've evolved to the pototo or vegetable latke most of us know. Which in turn has with the cheese has brought about a tradition of a dairy meal.

I actually have a recipe for a fried matzoh pastrie -kind of a strudel thing

- called "Krimsel" which is a fabulous thing for Passover season - but no one thinks of it a Chanukah food - maybe 'cause of the matzoh being a necessity at Passover.

Of course, now that I did a little looking - found this amazing recipe: Fried honey puffs are a traditional Hanukkah food for Sephardic Jews from the Mediterranean region, particularly Spain, Greece, and Turkey. Link is:

like the Jewish version of sopapillas! Ach - enough - I'll have to go cook something! ellice

This is a very good point. We have some couples that are dear friends, and with whom we celebrate the religious holidays. Friends for over 20 years.

2 of these couples, the wives are converts (well, 1 wife, 1 ex-wife, and the new wife who is really nice hasn't converted yet). One of the men, raised in a fairly observant typical American Conservative household. Other - not raised that way - though he and wife, children very religiously active - kids too though Reformed like myself. When we all started doing things together, K. - the one still married, and a avery intlligent, forthrought strong woman - would be finding something in some book and tell us what we "had to do" . It made for some interesting times as I would inevitably have to say "I don't care what you found in some book - this isn't what people really do". Even before the process of her conversion, and with no family tradition, and useless guys she would have had us doing triple work and coming up with really obscure reference. Interestingly, friend 2, B., took some cooking classes and is the 2nd cook in our group. K - she cooks - but really what she does is make challah - and I do most of the cooking.

It made for some real life interesting experiences in that what's a tradition and what does a book say thing.

This is a key point - the Diaspora. Hence some of us have recipes that are of the Sephardic tradition, other Ashkenazi, etc.

Nice definition. ellice

"Traditional" foods include, but are not limited to, latkes.

You can serve ANY food cooked in oil. It doesn't necessarily have to be latkes. It can be any kind of pancakes, fried fish, donuts, etc. It's the oil that's important, not what you cook in it.

My source apparently does not make latkes every night for 8 nights, he varies what he's cooking. The latkes are in there, but so is fried everything else, to avoid getting tired of latkes.

Um, while I'm sure you're convinced that your understanding of what your local friendly cantor has told you is perfect - it doesn't seem to be. Fried pork rinds - a fried food - would certainly not be appropriate. Nor would corn dogs. While, yes, the food fried in oil is the essence of the tie to the miracle of the oil in the lamp not every fried thing is appropriate - there are dietary rules that most people will consider when food is in the remembrance of a symbolic religious event. And thus, many people, IME, who do not keep Kosher, will indeed follow the basic dietary restrictions in observance of a holiday. Which is a point that you may not understand.

I find it interesting that as you are evidently not Jewish, based on your discussions of your church activities, and haven't said anything to lead me to believe that you have a Jewish heritage, or grew up in a Jewish neighborhood, or were inundated with Judaic culture or education that you're so keen on expressing that your information is the best. Honestly, based on what - your experience of a lifetime of family, friends and the Jewish holiday traditions? Oh, right - you asked your source "the cantor" . What

- you just looked one up on the web? Or a Jewish cantor joined your church? Or you found some guy with a hat at Starbucks and said - hey, you look like a cantor? Interesting in that there aren't that many cantors around - it's not a high population vocation - so interesting that you know someone who is. It's just kind of funny that you're giving Mirjam and I - who I expect have much more experience with Judaic traditions - a lecture that you're right, or more right. So glad that you could tell us emphatically what's important, especially since that is essentially what I wrote.

Evidently you don't get the point that certain foods are traditional - and just blithely telling someone to go to a diner and get pancakes - while you may have meant it in a positive way doesn't really cover the "tradition" . And for many families, especially those who via the diaspora are of Eastern European heritage - potato latkes are the tradtional food. Although, hey - maybe funnel cake will be the new one.

I don't know anybody that makes latkes every night. Most of my observant, or to some degree observant, friends and family light candles every night, say some blessings and prayers, and have a small celebration of sorts - but it's not like having Christmas for 8 nights. Fried everything else just is a funny thing to say - maybe you'd like some fried shrimp to go with the fried corndog, and fried clams, and so on.

I imagine the reason many of us were talking about the latkes is that it's a memory we share of how our people, our families celebrated this holiday. And as you grow older, apart - that memory, taste, still brings it back to you. And whether you and your source like it or not - that's the tradtional food item. Of course there are many other foods that are typically served during Chanukah - I make a few different varieties of latkes, and there are meat dishes, and other things.

Well, anyhow - too much on this subject.

ellice

My little family had a late lunch/dinner today. For the first time EVER, no one gorged on my latkes For some unknown reason, they were a really dark brown (not burnt) and golden as they almost always are. Even though they were thoroughly cooked, they were looser than usual. The main reason for ignoring the latkes was the 'funny' taste. After a brief discussion, we all decided that the taste and maybe the consistency and even the color were due to too much baking soda.

If you've had a kitchen catastrophe, type now or forever hold your piece.

Were you the one who said she used the blender? I used to do that, but I found that I had to be extraordinarily careful not to make them too watery. It's been years since I made them from scratch but I don't remember ever using any baking soda. Maybe because we liked them flat and not fluffy.

I'm not even going to tell you about my kitchen catastrophes. I used gas for cooking most of my adult life, until I moved to Florida and was stuck with this awful electric stove. Since I don't do very much cooking for myself I've never quite figured out how to use it. You would think after 10 years I would know that medium is really more like high and simmer sometimes means boil, and you must not leave the kitchen even for a second until you're sure the temperature is correct, but so far it's been mostly a struggle.

Lucille

I must confess that over the last 30 years we've never had a lot of luck with electric stoves and much prefer gas. The electric stoves we have used (because they were already installed in the house when we bought it) seemed to have a mind of their own when it came to setting hob temperatures and they took an age to heat up and cool down.

I have no choice. There are no gas lines to my house and no place for a propane tank. It's electric or nothing for me.

Mine heats up in a couple of seconds, but it does take forever to cool down. You would think that after all this time I would remember that you must take the pot off the burner or it will continue to cook.

I think my problem is I don't much like to cook for myself so I kind of ignore the rules and want to do it fast.

Lucille

Sorry to hear about your latkes, Anne.

I'm certain everyone who cooks has has some sort of diaster at one time or another. Here are a couple of mine:

The first few times I tried to make scones, I didn't have baking powder in the kitchen. Now, I did have baking soda and cream of tartar. (Heaven only knows why I had the latter.) And I found on the interweb that a combination of baking soda and cream of tartar will substitute for baking powder. Well, that may be, but not if you want to actually eat the results. The scones were ridiculously salty! The worst part of the story... I tried this *twice*! You'd have thought I would have learned my lesson the first time...

Then, I bought a slow cooker, before the one I now own as its replacement. The first time I cooked something in the previous slow cooker, no problem. Dish turned out fine. The second thing I cooked (tomato sauce) was AWFUL! Ick, yuck, ptui. Tasted like plastic. OK, weird. The next couple of things in the slow cooker were also fine. The second time I made tomato sauce it again tasted like plastic. OK, something about the tomatoes is reacting badly with the crock pot, right? So, over the next few days, I cooked vinegar in the crock pot, followed by plain water, followed by a baking soda solution, followed by water (twice), washing in between each time. Tried tomato sauce a third time... and... (you probably see where this is going...), PLASTIC! AAAARRRRGGG! I was not a happy camper. The crock pot got replaced (with a different brand and style), and my tomato sauce tastes like tomato sauce again.

I'm certain there are other culinary diasters in my past, since I often cook without a recipe. But nothing is quite as memorable as the tomato sauce made of plastic.

Anyway, I hope everyone enjoys the remaining nights of Chanukah.

--Mickey Edmonton, AB

to reply: mickey18385 at yahoo dot com

Oh - easy it was the time I tried to make a lemon chicken dish to be served over rice and the sauce was more of lemon sludge!

Cheryl

Based on my father being raised in a Jewish neighborhood where he was the Shabbats Goy.

Based on the half-dozen Jewish men I dated, and their mothers and their bubbes.

Based on my 30-year friendship with the cantor, whom I met while singing together.

Based on the numerous Jewish lawyers I worked with.

Based on numerous Jewish women I associate with in one way or another.

Based on having the Hadassah-WIZO cookbook on my bookshelf for 25+ years.

Someone who shall remain nameless suggested we could grate the potatoes one day and make the pancakes the next day. Grey and unappetizing on the inside. Not bad if you closed your eyes to eat.

Can I have yours, then? This mostly Irish Catholic girl LOVES potato pancakes! And, like others, isn't likely to cook them for just one & DH doesn't get too excited by them so it's not worth cooking for one. I'll have to look for that mix, though, that sounds promising. I often wished I had a Jewish friend so that I could trade Christmas cookies for potato pancakes this time of year. :-)) Liz from Humbug

I tried to make pretzels one year and must have added too much baking soda to the water. They tasted so horrible that I sprayed them with shellac and they are now hanging from my Christmas tree with red yarn. :-))) At least I only made them for DH & I so no one else knew at the time. I also accidentally added twice as much rum to that chocolate dessert one year, but no one whio tasted it is sure whether it was a mistake or a fortunate accident. Liz from Humbug

I was once invited to a Christmas cookie exchange. I don't normally make cookies. I live by myself and follow the principle that if I don't have them around, I won't eat them. I decided to try one of those recipes from a Christmas xs magazine, molasses laced ginger things. Well, of course I did it at the last minute. They were like rocks, and half of them were burnt. No time to run down to the grocery store to get more butter, more ginger, sugar, etc. Needless to say, I got the better half of the exchange. I was able to 'sell' them to a certain degree on their potential as Xmas ornaments, once sprayed with a bit of glitter, and possibly brown paint in some instances. Hmm. That woman hasn't had a cookie exchange since, or at least none I know about. Dora

So the Hawaiian chicken I had today would count? Fried chicken planks on a bed of pineapple rice with Polynesian sweet n sour sauce. Of course if *I* have to cook the food all bets are off. I don't like the mess of cooking fried foods (other than the occasional hard-fried egg for a sandwich) so don't do it.

You must share. I love them too--especially drenched in applesauce. Had some a few days ago as the Chriskindl market in Akron.

It threw me off for a while when I would eat them somewhere other than home because Mom always used leftover mashed potatoes for pancakes instead of grated and the texture is totally different. I actually prefer the mashed variety since they are very smooth and creamy. But in my family it isn't a Jewish thing since we are not. We are a very meat-and-potatoes people so these just fit in.

I AM personally well read about Judaism and Jewish cooking, and every source I have ever read on the subject has stressed that the most important part of Chanukah cooking is the oil, and not what you cook in it.

The Hadassah WIZO cookbook lists pancakes separately from latkes (leading me to believe that they mean "regular pancakes" and not potato pancakes), and also lists doughnuts (which, as I understand it, are a very recent addition to the acceptable "traditions").

I also, when I was dating one of the Jewish men, had long conversations with a woman who kept kosher so strictly that she would not even accept a glass of water in my kitchen because my dishes weren't kosher. I thought she did an excellent job of teaching me to keep kosher. Didn't wind up marrying the guy, so I didn't have to put it into practice, but I know how if I have to.

So, don't assume that because I'm not Jewish, I know nothing about it. I do tend to double-check my facts with the cantor because he grew up with it and may know some detail I've forgotten; his official word on the subject is "Anything FRIED in OIL is traditional....doughnuts, latkes, fish..."