My Finished Sampler

But only the Old Testament Bruce

Since we were discussing the Garden of Eden ,,,,,,,it is in the first cahpters of the Torah ,,, which for me and mine never became OLD ,,,,, mirjam

Lucretia you can write/ say/ believe or think you know what you will , but The Hebrew Jewish Torah was here BEFORE any New testament was dreamed about,, The Mere fact that it is called NEW testament Shows that Those who wrote it don`t see it as the ORIGINAL , but as a NEW version of the original one !!!!! mirjam >

Nobody is disputing that the Torah was written before the New Testament. The Torah is accepted by many people as the literal message of God to the Jewish people, as told to Moses. Christian Bibles incorporate the Hebrew Bible (with some variations) into its canon under the name of Old Testament or the Septuagint. Though different Christian denominations have slightly different versions of the Old Testament in their Bibles, the Five Books of Moses (or "the Law") are common to them all. Bruce

Thank you Bruce for reapeating to me that which i know,,, The talk / discussion here was whether there was an Apple mentioned in the chapter about Gan-Eden =3DParadise, and i wrote that the Fruit WASN~T mentioned by name at all , and thus it WASN`T an apple ,,, it was a the Fruit of the tree of knowing Good and bad ,,,,, if an apple fits that description ??? we don`t know .... mirjam

Ps Bruce , not only the Torah [which you call the 5 books of Moses were written before the New Testament , also the other 2 parts . In some Christian churches the Order of the Bioble as we have it has been reshufled a bit mirjam =2E.

I don't know about that. DH has recently really gotten into the history of the Chumash (first five books of the Talmud) and the changes are amazingly small.

Well that's a real relief, I had doubts where you are concerned !

I am not talking about "Old" "New" etc. I am talking about any old book, including the Torah, which was a written book long before there were any printing presses. First the stories were handed down person to person verbally, then eventually someone wrote it down but so few could read it that the person writing could pretty much write anything he/she wished !

I would not stake my life on any part of it being particularly accurate.

A bible has just been returned here to a church in Lunenburg. It is of particular interest because of a typo which has the Parable of the Vineyard mistakenly printed as the Parable of the Vinegar.

See Bad, Bad Leroy Brown, no matter how nice you are - you will be wrong !! I bet it was you who shuffled those books !

In my other post I explained that it is difficult to be certain since it would originally have been stories handed down verbally.

My assertion is that with all the written (and hand written, at that) Torahs that have been examined, including the Dead Sea Scrolls, that the changes are practically nonexistent. And some of those are pretty old - 5th century BC - if nothing else, I find the consistency very compelling.

Cheryl

I think at best they were early laws for a society to live fairly decently and they would have been applied in a very narrow field.

Take the flood for instance, that is related consistently as covering the earth, but from our perspective we can see it was a very local flood, likely in Turkey (think I read that) so there are many grey areas.

I don't know if it is the same for you as other faiths, but there is always that point when the priest, minister, rabbi, mullah, whomever asks that you take a leap in faith and believe anyway without being so analytical.

Apples at the base are roses,( as are almonds, quinces, pears, strawberries and a very long, long list of everyday foods we eat) and roses go back millions of years. It was just that the most familiar fruit in northern Europe, when the bible was being translated was the apple, so that's what people saw in their mind's eye when 'fruit' was mentioned.

Much of Europe was non-literate when Christianity was being introduced and the use of stained glass windows as teaching devices helped reinforce the idea of the apple, since they would show Adam and Eve and the tree of knowledge as an apple tree. Plus there were pagan references to apples (the Celts used apples in their mythology; the Greeks, the golden apples of the Hesperides, the golden apple of discord, Atalanta, etc) All of these influences transfered.

MargW

Hers is far more likely to be accurate as hers is not an 'edition', nor is it a translation.

MargW

Very interesting, I didn't realize that (about the apples) but it does show - I think - that taking translations and versions of documents from eons ago literally, is not very rational :)

You would get the same argument about the New Testament from a christian but I suggest I would not necessarily take it as gospel lol

One of the most interesting courses I took in college was "The Bible as Literature." We examined the King James version, looking at how text changed through various languages (Aramaic, Greek, Latin) and how parts were compilations from many authors. We also learned that many of the events mentioned in the Old Testament were urban 'legends' that were part of the faiths of other religions. BTW, the course was taught by a Dutch Calvinist to a bunch of Jewish kids who had been raised to ignore the New Testament.

I must pass that on to my brainy childhood friend, she is still wading through a translation of her own from Greek to English. She does admit though, that it makes little sense, she does it because she loves doing it.

Thank you Cheryll , I hope your husbands enjoys his Chumash ,,, Lucretia is probably also not aware of the Tezt found on the scrools of Kumeran whose texts are also very close to the ones we read now. mirjam