My Finished Sampler

I recall being crushed when in Paris being taken for Swiss.

LOL - I can relate to this. As in opening my mouth in Paris - no one thinks I'm American, but certainly think I'm from the boonies (South - between Bourdeaux and the Pyrenees) - cause my accent is definitely of that region known as Haut-Quercy.

I remember learning German in school, and being intrigued and caught with the similarities and differences with Yiddish - which is essentially a middle-low German dialect. The parents and grandparents always spoke Yiddish when they didn't want us kids to understand - but my German classes in Junior hi & high school took care of that. Now, my German stinks 'cause I never practice it. Oh, well. But I can still say "I'm going to the library" (for those who remember ALM language series texts)

Ellice

As in the state above NH? Or Meintz in Germany?

Ellice - rdh

Ah, well, Parisians are pretty particular about their language - though I've always found people happy if you're trying - for the most part. I remember some Frecnh woman that I helped with directions - in Paris - flipping out when it dawned on her that I wasn't Parisian by my accent. But, I knew where we were, and more importantly, where the little street she was looking for was - and the other folks at the corner didn't help. Very funny - she backed up, looking shocked, and then demurred my further offers of help. The others on the corner kind of shared a smile as she hustled off - clearly suburban woman in trying to be "Parisian" and her cover blown - especially when aided by me. Even better - when I went strolling into the consulate - past guards and into the "hallways" beyond the lobby - and said woman was waiting in the queue to apply for a visa. Tee hee. I think it was worse than, as Oh, no - not only was her help not Parisian, but....American.

When I had colleagues over from the states while I was living in the boonies we'd usually go up to Paris to finish up business. One of my deputies was completely annoyed when the girl working at the "night bus tour" place finished helping some English tourists - speaking English, then when we walked up - looked at me and just spoke French - immediately. The guys were punching me because undoubtedly she'd heard them speaking American to me - but still assumed to just speak to me in French. Could've been the clothes (color combination being very then French and not American). Who knows - but it was pretty funny - they thought they were blending in - which is almost impossible for American men - and the girl just looked at them and spoke English - before they'd made comments out loud. Ah, well - the little victories in life. They had to buy the drinks 'cause they honestly didn't think I would pass outside of the small town I lived in (where everyone knew I was the American, but spoke French to me cause hardly anyone spoke English).

Ellice

The German one - spellings vary. His parents grew up in Worms.

I learned my not very good Yiddish because my illiterate in any language grandmother, who was from Russia, refused to speak English to me and insisted that someday I would be glad she made me learn another language. Her Yiddish was filled in with English words and I was able to get along.

Then I discovered that the Israeli uncle's Yiddish was almost completely unintelligible to me. It seems that first of all his original Yiddish was sprinkled with Polish instead of English, and then after 50 years of living in Israel, it was stuffed with Hebrew.

It is a fun language and I wish I was better at it.

Dee !!! I apologize for not having seen this note before, i now read the Ng through google and this subject has been pushed to the `side` of the screen. If you ask me if i had read the first ever written Tanach, of course not . But i have read some Megilla parts [archeological findings] . I do read Tanach , Talmud , Tora SheBeAlPe , all in Hiebrew + it`s Arameic etc... as it comes and has been read over so many generations, after all this is my inheritance. I also love the Hebrew poetry written by the Jewish Scholars in Spain. Middle ages Hebrew poetry written all over etc,,, I am all the time enriching my reading .because i wish to learn more . Thank you for your compliment , you made me blush.

mirjam ,,

My mother told me always, that her Father Who was Teaching 8 languages, forebade her and her sisters to speak Yiddish , as it would `Ruin` their German accent. To her own amazement years later , when many people came here from Russia , she found herself answering them in Hebrew and Yiddish , since her parents Spoke Russian and Polish when The Girls weren`t alloowed to hear it . In Amsterdam, both Yiddish and Ladino were spoken in yet another `accent` , as well as sharing many idioms. Years later i found myself understanding Ladino as well , only from having heard it . The languages we as kids hear , can stay with us all our lives. It wasn`t easy as kids being mooved from country to country, changing languages, Hebrew was my third language, And since i did most my schooling here, it became my Best Rooted language. I had neighbours who spoke German [ 3 different Jargons] , Dutch, Hebrew, English, Arabic [ Iraqui] Yemenite etc and i had one neighbour who spoke Cantoneze Chinese . Alas Besides Adoring her beautiful shopping lists , which i couldn`t read, i had no chance to learn her language . mirjam

Ellice your story reminded me , of one of my father`s cousins, who grew up in Indunezia , and was captured By the Japanese in WW2, and thus learned fluent Japanese. He told me that one day , in Tokjo , he approached a policeman , and asked for directions in Japanese, the man looked at him and said that he dosen`t speak English. Cousin repeated his question in Japanese and only Than Did the policeman Separate his Different look from the actual langugae he spoke, appologized and helped him. mirjam

It's really wonderful that you appreciated and were able to absorb all these languages. Not being a snob, but I do believe that not everyone has the same affinity for language - just as we all don't have the same eye for color or ability with visual arts, etc. I'm very addicted to learning languages - and have been thinking I should dig out some of my old Russian texts, and get that going again - plus of course my very rusty Hebrew! My "bubby" (maternal great grandmother), who lived in Brighton Beach, only spoke Russian and Yiddish. I don't ever remember her speaking English - or very, very little. So, as a young child I learned to speak a bit of Russian, and of course there was plenty of Yiddish. My grandfather (her son-in-law) had been born in Kiev and didn't come to the US until he was around 8, if I have the story right. So he would speak with her in Russian. I didn't know his parents but guess I was lucky to know the one - she died when I was about 5 or 6. On my Dad's side, his parents were born here, but the grandparents were all Austrian Jews. And I strongly remember his father's father - who spoke English, and German, plus no doubt Yiddish. But, he would go back to Austria quite regularly. It's interesting, our melting pots of lnaguage.

Ellice

On 7/25/08 1:21 AM, " snipped-for-privacy@actcom.co.il" wrote:

That's a great story, and I can totally understand how that would happen. Sometimes people first go with their expectation, before they actually listen. One of my colleagues in grad school was a manufacturing expert, and took a few years of Japanese - becoming fluent, travelling there, etc. This guy is the most "white bread" looking American you could imagine - tallish, thin, very blonde and blue-eyed, with the lanky I'm from the mid-west farm lands kind of walk. Great guy. It was a hoot when he'd break out in Japanese! My first year officemate was Japanese (sent by Mitsubishi to get an American engineering masters) and spoke very, very little English. When Yasuki was in NY at the language institute for 6 weeks (prior to starting school) he evidently spent his time touristing. So, his English was as bad as my Japanese. Terrible. He could say a few words - but was clearly sooooo nice. We had him reading all kinds of magazines to help him. The math/formulas in our texts were easily understood - but poor guy couldn't understand most of the writing. So, our Japanese speaking colleague would come over to our office, or vice versa, on a regular basis to help the cause. It made for quite the picture. To truly complicate things our advisor (not of the manufacturing guy) was German, spoke English, but was a crazy, tempermental, egotistical guy who would go back to German when excited or whatever. His interactions with Yasuki were a glory of miscommunication (said advisor is the one that actually had a nervous breakdown later my first year and disappeared 2 weeks before finals - but that's another story).

My office was a large cubicle in a row of about 4 or 5, located along the window wall of a very large, 30' ceiling, lab room in a turn of the 20th century building. In that set we had 3 Americans, a Japanese guy, an Indian girl, a German guy (Wolfgang - complete with beard and much hair), and a Chinese post-doc. We were referreed to as "the international office" or the "UN" . It was a hoot. We had a lot of space - and our friends from the various depts would show up - so languages were freely flowing. Oh, did I mention that there was a Spanish (from Spain) project mate for one of the guys? No wonder we would have "international dinners" as get togethers. Not to mention our mate from Iceland, taking a crew to Europe (his dad was a VP at IcelnadAir and got everyone great cheap tix - just had to stop in Iceland).

ellice

My best friend from high school, who is black, was married to a Japanese fellow and lived there for a while. Thus she speaks fluent High Tokyo. She's got a great story about being in a Japanese-run shop in Hawaii, and the owners saying things in a lower dialect of Japanese about "you got to watch black people, they steal things". And the embarrassment when she got to the counter and not only speaks Japanese, but a better quality Japanese than they do. By way of apology, they loaded her down with about $100 worth of free stuff.

Me, I speak Restaurant Japanese, and that's about it. Unfortunately, I speak it with such a perfect accent that invariably the waitress smiles and says something to me that we're assuming means "how wonderful that you speak Japanese." When I can get the best friend over here on vacation, we're going back to the restaurant so she can tell me if I guessed correctly what the waitress is saying. :)

Karen C - California wrote: > My best friend from high school, who is black, was married to a Japanese

Something similar happened to DD about a year ago. She was working in the local mall's GNC (General Nutrition Center - a misnomer if ever there were, IMHO, but that's a different topic) and some young women came in who must have been African immigrants. They did their shopping, and as they were checking out, one of them said to the other in French, "Why are you buying diet pills from a fat girl?" DD continued to ring them up, and then as they were leaving, said to them in French, "I am the assistant manager and have knowledge of all the products in this store and can answer any questions you might have." She said they beat a hasty exit.

Sue

That happened to me in PA last week. I was in the Dollar Tree (my favorite store of all time) and when checking out the woman behind me was a Latina as well as the cashier and the cashier told her to just take the item, it's okay. In Spanish she said "this asshole doesn't know what we're talking about," and I answered in Spanish! She nearly fainted white!

I tink I am spoiled down here in Texas. Most of our Latin neighbors are Mexican and they are very hard working, respectful and polite to everyone.

Yep. When we were dating, we were in a bar where two Mexicans were already using the pool table. We proposed playing the two of them against the two of us, loser buys the winner a pitcher of beer, and one of them said in Spanish "it's a sucker bet, girls can't play pool". When we won the first game, the response we were not supposed to understand was "beginner's luck, we can beat them easy a second time".

Didn't realize it till we took them for the third pitcher and I grinned (in Spanish) "girls can't play pool, huh?"

Ellice ,,

Thank you , for understanding that . I think that more than absorbing more than one language , one keeps an open heart to the Different ways people can and do express themselves.

I don`t think it is snobish or even a matter for bragging, multy languages , was and is a normal part of our lives. Everybody around us spoke at least 3 langugaes. many kids spoke at home 1 language with one parent and another with the second. I think we were very unlucky not to have known All Our Grandparents, thus we lost a lot our linguistic knowledge. With my praternal family i always spoke, and still correspond in Dutch. My mother and stepfather spoke Dutch and my mother taught Dutch. My mother learned her first school years in Paris, hence French was her 2nd skin. My father was a translator and linguist. Thus all in all i just was lucky , but i always thought it was like that in all families.

But it could be a genetic thing. Like Music , Dancing etc, that many a time shows up in many members of same family .

Me too, I alwats read dictionaries as a hobby. Several years ago a new Hebrew-Yiddish Dictionary came out , i bought it and am reading a page a day , to brush up on the yiddish i learned by listening /reading as a child.

Good idea! i wish you luck.

What a lucky person you are and what wonderful memory that might be !!!!

As you might know Israel had an imigration of 1.5 milion Jews from Russia , thus in our streets Russian . Ukrainian is heard. i collected quite some terminologies , but i am not speaking any of it. many times people complain , why i don`t answer in Russian...

What a wonderful memory you have Ellice,,, you are blessed. ay they all stay in your memory, for many many years. [za"l]

Have you read or at least seen the book "The modern Jewish Canon , A Journey Through Langugae and Culture , by Ruth R. Wisse , The Free Press, 2000. You might enjoy it !!! Thank you for this wonderful discussion , and your lovely family memories . mirjam

Elllice Strated to Thank you and answer this one , but the Cyber Hicupped thus i won`t write /answer again ,,, Your wonderful story is so realistic and happens in all places where people with several langugaes /cultures meet /work etc... The other day my son told me that some tourist asked information , in the bus , 3 people were able to translate the Tourists request to the driver, and than translate back the answer ... mirjam

Don`t you just LOVE that when you have that opportunity? We used to have a lot of French Students in our town, and some of the boys were fond of cycling past and yelling insults at women they passed. They nearly fell off their bikes when I gave them a rather basic earful in French, much to the amusement of one of their fellow students (female)who was staying with us at the time!

Pat

I just think it's funny how people automatically assume. And yes, it was fun to have that opportunity. What goes around comes around.

Speaking of that, where have you been lately?