OT: Musings on the London bombings.

Well Jim ,,, In western democracies you can at least oppose the law[s] And you aren`t Killed /murdered for having anothjer opinion

You canalways claim, you haven`t seen nore heard anything ,,,, and Nobody will jail you for that ,,, In Other countries you might Disappear for not agreeing with a law ,,, mirjam

My grandson (at present under pretty constant "bombing" in Iraq) says that they`ve been musing on the London bombings too, and were absolutely infuriated to see the news reports and pictures. His view is that THEY are PAID to get bombed - it`s their job - but those poor civilians don`t expect that when they`re just getting on a train or bus to get to work. He says it doesn`t half strengthen their (the troops`) resolve, though!"

Pat P

I don't disagree, and was just trying to figure out what you were saying.

I think you can always point out those that totally assimilate immediately and are proud of their new country. But I think a large portion do not feel that way. In fact, I'm not sure WHY so many have emmigrated. I'm thinking of Dearbon, Michigan, whose population is almost solidly Muslim. It's like living in another country. My SIL finally had to sell her house, fearing for her safety. Hamtrammick (spelling), Michigan, which used to be a largely Polish community, is now also heavily Muslim and they have loudspeakers all over the city for their call to prayer - the argument being that existing churches had bells which rang on Sunday.

It is very easy for persons bent on terrorism to hide in these communities. Even their neighbors may not be aware. The persons responsible for the September 11 attacks melted into their communities. That's why it took ten years to execute the deed.

Dianne

This is precisely my point, and why I am scared of ladies in headscarves. There are reports on our TV of mosques being attacked in New Zealand. If our Muslim community means what it says, in condemning the terrorism, why dont they **DO** something about it instead of just talking. Not a single law enforcement agency in Canada has made a statement that the Muslim community in their neck of the woods is going out of their way to cooperate, and work out ways of detecting "sleeper cells". One wonders why not, and suspects the worst.

-- Jim Cripwell. From Canada. Land of the Key Bird. This creature of doom flies over the frozen tundra in winter, shrieking its dreaded call; "Key, Key, Key, Key rist but it's cold!!"

I think it`s obvious WHY, Dianne - purely for financial security and a better standard of living. Much easier to emigrate than to work to improve things where they came from! At least you have more space - we`re over-run with them! I sympathise with your SIL - there are many places here where you feel uncomfortable. Even in our small, local, County Town, on a Saturday it`s quite daunting to see that as far as the eye can see are foreign faces. It`s not so much that, but the way they seem to gather into large noisy groups.

Pat P

Pat P

I used to be of that same mindset. But a few years ago, a man on the street went crazy and started chasing my young children and myself with a hunting knife. Another citizen drove up, and called for us to get into his car. We did, and he called 911 on his cell as he got us out of the area. The police arrested the man who chased us, but told us it would do us no good to press charges because although our attacker was well known to police, and high on crack, he was also protected by the mental health act and would not see jail time. We later learned that this attacker was given our home address because he was told not to go within 1/4 mile of our address as part of his agreement to be released into the public again. So although I think our police force does a wonderful job, the laws in this country absolutely have to change. As they are now, I would go to any length to protect a victim, but I won't lift a finger to report an illegal activity with the intent of seeing justice served, because it just isn't going to happen.

Maureen In Vancouver, B.C.

Jim , No terrorist will walk as a lady wth scarf , this will be too obviois ,, he will look like like you ,,,, You won`t give him /her a second look .... mirjam

You have missed the whole point, Mirjam; possibly because you dont live in Canada. Terrorists can potentially hide over here in Muslim communities. The more fundamentalist Muslims that live there, the more likely is it that terrorists can hide. The more females there are wearing headscarves, the more likely it is that there is a critical mass of Muslims amongst whom an Al Qaeda sleeper cell can hide.

-- Jim Cripwell. From Canada. Land of the Key Bird. This creature of doom flies over the frozen tundra in winter, shrieking its dreaded call; "Key, Key, Key, Key rist but it's cold!!"

There is a difference between mental health laws and laws for the mentally stable. I agree and am aghast about your experience. But this wouldn't deter me from reporting, for instance, armed robbery if I saw the suspects and could identify them or provide insight to police.

Don't get me started on the U.S. mental health laws. :-) Dianne

While I sympathize with the premise, if I remember correctly (and I could be wrong), the 9/11 attackers melted into regular society, not Muslim communities. Dianne

Sorry to tell you, Mirjam, that there was a young Israeli woman on the bus in London, that was blown up by the bomb. She lived here for most of the past eighteen years, but her parents are in Israel. She was always terrified of bombs on buses when she visited them - poor girl.

Pat P

Dianne , this was just my point to Jim !!! mirjam >

No Jim , I don`t think i have missed your point, The young woman who blew up a resturant on Haifa Beach , looked like every other young woman ,, she ordered her food, got up suppusedly to pay , stood next to a baby stroler , and blew herself up . Our friend Dov , was blown up while eating in an Arab owned resturant

I considered for some time whether to reply to this, but I know you like a good discussion. Even if you are right, the world has changed since 9/11/01. We now know the USA had the intelligence to prevent the attack on the towers, but it did not get properly coordinated. The intelligence and law enforcement agencies in both Canada and the USA are far more closely coordinated in 2005. If Al Qaeda somehow wants to set up a sleeper cell in Canada, I cannot see how it could be hidden from Canadian authorities, unless some fair sized community conspired to hide it. And the only candidate as to which this community could possibly be is the Muslim community.

-- Jim Cripwell. From Canada. Land of the Key Bird. This creature of doom flies over the frozen tundra in winter, shrieking its dreaded call; "Key, Key, Key, Key rist but it's cold!!"

JIM !!!! About 2 yyears ago , 2 English passport bearing men, came as tourists to Israel and blew up a Coffee shop, by the way i heard on the Radio , that the explosives used there are aclose top those used on the London Bus ,,,, You might have in Canada , people who intend to do a terror act , and they might be your next door neighbour .... Last year when the Dutch Police , caught the muderer of Van Goch and some Terror groups ,, one Nice lady said to the TV Crew ,," But this very nice young man, Carried my shopping bags up the atairs , he can`t be a terrorist !!!"

Yes the world has changed ,,, and you are Never prepared for the terror act that will come , you are only ready for the one that happened.

Even if A research says this , it is of little imprtance ,,, In Israel Teror acts are daily prevented ,, and we never hear abouut them ,,, we hear only about those that Alas Succeed. The

EASILY ....This is not a game , nore a film where problems like that are solved in 2 hours .. This WW3... .> unless some fair sized community conspired to hide

Any community could be used as Hiding place !!! mirjam >

I would think you`d find that Sleepers tend to keep their intentions very much to theselves. The fewer people involved the more likely they are to be successful. Particularly people in the community that they have infiltrated.

A variation on our wartime posters - "Careless talk costs lives".

Pat P

Oh, how I hope this is true. They're doing a lot of saber rattling, but I'm not cnvinced we know anymore now (or have the ability to know and coordinate) than we did then.

As Mirjam has postulated, these cells are so laid back no one is suspicious. And they don't all live in the same town (or the same block) - they are scattered all over.

I understand your fear and your disdain for some of Muslim teaching. But I have the same fear and disdain for some of Christian teaching. One need look no further than the killing of doctors, homosexuals, the hanging of blacks, and the bombings of clinics. Granted, these isolated incidents don't take as many lives. However one life is one too many under the guise of twisted religious logic and false morality.

Wonderful discussion on public radio the other day from a gentleman who researched where these groups came from, how and why they operate. It might surprise you to know they (the suicide bombers) originated in Sri Lanka. Wish I could remember more so that I could share more. In the end, religion isn't the reason - it's power and control. If Al Quaeda is squashed, some other will take its place. It's urban, gorilla warefare - and it's global.

Thanks for helping me to understand your point of view. Dianne