OT: THEY FOUND THE MINERS ALIVE!!

After all the bad news of 2005, how wonderful to start 2006 with some good news!

I don't believe this! They made a mistake? None of the miners survived? This is just not good enough. What a shock that was! Shut down the mines for God's sake.

Maureen

Brilliant news! Just before I went to sleep last night, the news was very negative. What a relief.

Pat P

"Maureen In Vancouver, B.C." wrote in message news:3VIuf.241381$ki.122100@pd7tw2no...

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Sadly, this was a false report. 12 of the 13 are dead, the 13th is hospitalized in critical condition.

Caryn

Oh dear, how heartbreaking. This was what they were expecting in our morning news report. It seemed quite a regular thing in the UK when we had a lot of mines all over the country.

I`ve been down some Welsh slate mines in Snowdonia which are very similar, and it really made you realise the terrible conditions they worked in. We all had to don hard hats, and follow the very dim lights (my then son-in-law is 6 ft 4 and kept banging his head on the roof), and somewhere in the distance you heard the quiet singing of the Welsh Miners (taped, of course) - what an atmosphere.

Pat P

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Well the government inspection agencies could in force the safe workplace laws already in effect for a start rather than throw even more people out of a job. This mine had been cited for unsafe conditions recently and not infrequently. Pessimistic retort warning. Its the US so the families will make fortunes when the law suits are settled some of which could be spent on training and education that would provide alternate employment possibilities for the children, siblings etc

Ruby

The wife of one of the younger ones said her husband had talked about getting the education to get a safer job, but "he was working for me and the children". So, some of them did see a way out, but hadn't acted on it.

The question is, what other jobs exist in significant numbers in West Virginia? I know a lot of people who don't want to move away from their family, and are willing to put up with a crappy job so they don't have to move elsewhere to get a good job.

Apparently someone overheard something, misunderstood what they overheard, and relayed this to the families. It was not the mining company or government officials "lying to the families" but someone acting without any authority passing along what he shouldn't have overheard in the first place.

Being from West Virginia, I think it's sad that there is a perception that there are no decent jobs here besides coal mining, timbering, etc. It's not like we're stuck in the stone age for crying out loud. I'm sure nothing bad was intended by the comment made, but there are plenty of jobs in WV that aren't mining. We have several universities/colleges, the FBI fingerprinting center for the nation is here as is the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health. The place that does the computers part for NASA. There are many hospitals and computer programming places. And we have a state scholarship that pays in-state tuition for qualifying students(it requires slightly above avegarge ACT/SAT scores and GPA). In the realm of jobs not requiring a college degree there are most of the same things you'd find in any other state: Several aerospace manufacturing places, lots of different factories, chemical industries including DuPont, a Toyota plant, a Kingsford plant, some steel mills, some plastics manufacturers, a few glass factories including Fenton art glass. There's also some business in craft-type things like quilts, stitching, woodworking, etc. And don't forget tourism is a big business here: the New River Gorge and Bridge Day, white water rafting, skiing, beautiful fall foliage, mountain biking, the Appalachian Trail, rails-to-trails, camping and many beautiful state parks, race tracks, too. These are just the things I can think of off the top of my head. Add to this the facts that we have a pretty low crime rate, a lower cost of living than many places, and very friendly people and WV certainly is a great place to live. Check out the website if you'd like or simply Google for things:

Sara

"Karen C - California" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@individual.net...

I must not be getting all the messages in this thread as I did not see any suggestion that coal mining was the only work available in all of West Virginia. Had the tragedy occurred at a race track or the Toyota plant or the FBI center then I assume that is what the topic of the message thread would have been. I think it is your perception and assumptions regarding what any of us may or may not be aware of regarding your lovely state of West Virginia that is in need adjusting. Close all the mines says I and Let them all work at the Toyota plant that will save the trouble of addressing any issues related to mine safety. What is the coal used for anyway. Must be one of those experimental government projects. Ruby

90 percent of the coal mined in the US (over 1 billion short tons per year) is used to generate electricity. More than half of the electricity generated in the US comes from coal. The Appalachian region produces 35 percent of US coal production. I'm guessing it would be a problem to simply shut down all the mines.

Best wishes, Ericka

I was simply addressing this question from Karen C.: "The question is, what other jobs exist in significant numbers in West Virginia? I know a lot of people who don't want to move away from their family, and are willing to put up with a crappy job so they don't have to move elsewhere to get a good job." Like I said, I'm sure it wasn't meant negatively. I'm just answering the question and hopefully preventing/changing and misconceptions there may be. Coal goes to providing electricity, whether the power is actually produced in WV or not. We also make a lot of electricity here that is exported to other areas like NYC. And supposedly we're going to build a plant that will turn coal into gasoline...the first of its kind in the east, or in the US, I'm not sure which.

I saw Karen C. pose a question that could have simply been a question, but could also have been taken as a rhetorical comment on the lack of opportunity in West Virginia, Ruby.

Elizabeth

I may not be accurate, because this came from TV and I only believe 5% at best in what they say. However the miners are supposedly paid $50,000 a year to work down there. I know it is not a huge amount, in fact a low-middle income. However it beats the teachers $30,000. I suspect this is because they are in an uninsurable job, and may have to rely on a Union for benefits. Gillian

If you'll re-read that, Sara, it was a question, not a perception.

I was asking whether there are other jobs that have moved into the area since I studied such things and the predominant jobs *were* mining and timbering. I.e., had something like, say, car manufacturing moved into WV that wasn't there way back when? You answered my question that it has; thank you. That sheds some light on the big picture, that these guys DID have some options other than mining, whereas 50 years ago, the choice would've been between mining and not working.

You mentioned tourism. Most tourism jobs pay minimum wage or little more. Yes, they're jobs, but a $6/hour tourism job is no exchange for a $20/hour manufacturing job if you're raising a family. (Just ask all the men on the Calif North Coast who lost their good-paying lumber mill jobs and found that the only thing to replace them in that area is minimum wage tourism jobs.)

You're right. I shouldn't post before I'm fully awake.

I probably could have worded it better to communicate that it was a request for information on whether any other industry exists

*in*significant*numbers*. (As in, there may be one two-person computer tech company in town, but that does not mean that anyone who wants to become a computer tech will have no trouble finding a job, because the only two jobs in that field already belong to Geek & Son. As opposed to a hospital that employs 500 nurses and can always use another one.)

In hindsight, I probably should've put a paragraph between the question and my observation that I personally know people who would rather be near family and work a crappy job than to move to where they can find a good-paying job, so that it was more clear that I wanted information on whether that really was the only employment choice these guys had if they wanted to stay near their family.

I have, repeatedly, told a friend who's fed up with being offered $6/hour that she could get a similar job elsewhere for 2-3x as much pay, and she has repeatedly refused to move. She'd rather have a crappy job and live there, and that's that. So, it was possible that some of the miners (if there were no other decent-paying jobs, which Sara now advises there are) might have made the same choice, that they'd rather live where their kids can know Grandma than move away for a good job and the kids see Grandma once a year.

In fact, a miner's family member said something on TV that sounded like he'd had to leave WV to get a decent-paying job that wasn't mining. So, I was seeking confirmation of that impression.

There are several good sized computer places around, and I know several friends who graduated with degrees in comp. science and got jobs at those places. They supposedly pay well, too. And there are several large hospitals, including the university hospital and another one right in the town where I am. I can't tell you how many people they employ but I guess it could be looked up. As far as I know, the university hospital system(which has 5? hospitals or so) is in the top 5 state employers.

I'm sure you didn't mean in badly. Like I said, I was just hoping to avoid any misconceptions. Don't be offended, please.

I feel that there are decent paying jobs around here, but this does not mean that they are decent paying in terms of CA or CT wages. But, our cost of living is also lower....things often even out. Sometimes, as you say, moving away from the place and the people you love isn't worth the higher pay or the higher cost of living. "Good" job is also subjective, in terms of the above things.

Yes, it's true. Many, many people leave here in search of jobs that they feel are better paying or whatever it is that they want. Surveys also show many of these people eventually return to the place and people they love. But, there are also lots of people who find a job and stay here. And I believe personally that a lot of people don't look very hard for a job and assume they have to leave. I know many people who say these things. I also know that they haven't looked much but have just assumed. And that they haven't thought much about other things like cost of living, distance from relatives, etc. Just my 2-cents.

Yeah, I know tourism in general doesn't pay that well, I was just listing everything that came to mind. As you point out, these guys had other options but I think it's like a lot of other jobs: boys tend to follow in their fathers' and grandfathers' steps. For many it is a sense of heritage and pride that carries them into that industry. Same with logging I think. A friend who is a logger is proud that he's helped his dad in the woods since he was young and is doing the same thing his grandfather once did with horses instead of equipment. But, yes, I think there are always options so long as one applies him/herself.