OT: THEY FOUND THE MINERS ALIVE!!

I think you're probably right about many jobs requiring a level of education that can't now be obtained by people who have had some different type of job their whole lives. I think it's something common in the US as our economy transistions....or whatever is happening.

I seem to recall that somewhere in the news coverage of this tragedy, there actually was mention of one of the miners working on his education so that he could move on to a different job. But, of course, that's not a quick or cheap process.

Absolutely. It's one of the most significant issues in the country today as we transition to an economy where we require more highly educated workers.

Best wishes, Ericka

Which teachers make $30,000 a year, Gill? When I looked into secondary school teaching 8 years ago, salaries in Ohio were higher than that.

Elizabeth

Even here in Port Saint Lucie, with a perfectly awful school system, most teachers are making in the $40,000 range.

Lucille

Younger teachers in California make about that. With tenure, etc., the senior ones are making much more.

ISTR hearing that junior college professors were also starting a little above $30,000 locally. XH had the notion he was going to become a JC History prof, so I looked into getting away from further wrist damage from typing by teaching something, anything, at the JC. I would've taken a serious pay cut, which certainly didn't justify investing in a Masters to qualify for the job.

You know lot of people who don't want to move away from their family...willing to put up with a crappy job? Have you been to WV? First of all, it a beautiful state full of Universities and plenty of government jobs to fill a boat.

Coal miners have known for many years how dangerous it is, black lung disease, etc. I am in no way saying any of those families are getting what they deserve, they certainly are unimaginably pained right now. I cannot imagine how they feel, the suffering which went on for the last few weeks is really something I can't fathom. If Mark is a half hour late from work I'm ready to call hospitals.

It should also be known there have been hundreds of safety infractions against this particular mining company and with all the restrictions loosed by our illustrious current administration, the protection for safe work place has just about disappeared for these miners.

The whole thing sucks.

My condolences to the families of the miners I believe Mining is an important job. I hope technical dvelopments will be adopted to make mines safer.

mirjam

Dude's family used to do the whole coal mining thing, his paternal grandfather died of black lung. They live in western VA, in the mountains. It's truly a lovely area, lots of trees, rolling hills, insanely twisting roads (take your Dramamine kids). There has slowly been more industry moving into the area, which has allowed the current generation to find jobs outside the mines. They do tend to pay less, but it is safer.

I think it's a bit unfair to blame the company that owned the mine in this case, they just bought it in November, and supposedly were working to fix all the problems the previous owners were cited for. No mine will ever be 100% safe, and we do need the coal. Strip mining is no solution as it destroys the environment and beauty of the area.

I agree with whoever said WV was one of the prettiest states there is. I've visited several times, the views from their turnpike are breathtaking.

Caryn

Starting salary in California in 2004 was almost $35,000. The average was more than $55,000

ISTR hearing that junior college professors were also starting a little > above $30,000 locally. I find that hard to believe.

Elizabeth (who started at $31,000 at a four year institution in Ohio in

1992)

I had read that here, in Florida, rookie teachers started at a very low level of pay.The mid-upper twenties comes to mind; I think that was a couple of years ago though. I can check into it.

I used to work for H&R Block , and the relatively low figures on teachers' W-2s I always found to be shocking. Twenty years ago my daughter went to college, aiming for a math degree, and planning to teach High School level Math. Well, she got the math degree, no problem, but wanted to make a bit more money, so went into the computer field. Her thoughts were that later in life, she would pick up teaching. It never did work that way, she got the MS in Computer Science, and it is now hard to give up a six-figure salary!

Maybe that is why Florida has a fairly poor level of schooling, compared to the rest of the nation.

Gill

I disagree with this a bit. I think if the new owners knew about these dangers, and there were many which would have closed the mines down before the restrictions were loosened, they should have shut down until the mine was up to OSHA standards, and beyond.

Either way, it was a true disaster and my heart goes out to the families. I really cannot imagine this happening to anyone in my life. It would tear my heart out.

Taken from the above website (notice that their info is 3 years old): "Average teacher salaries. California had the nation's highest average salary in 2002-03, at $55,693. States joining California in the top tier were Michigan, at $54,020; Connecticut, at $53,962; New Jersey, at $53,872; and the District of Columbia, at $53,194.

South Dakota had the lowest average salary in 2002-03, at $32,414. The other states in the bottom tier were Montana, at $35,754; Mississippi, at $35,135; North Dakota, at $33,869; and Oklahoma, at $33,277. Also in the lowest tier were the Virgin Islands, at $34,764; Guam at $34,738; and Puerto Rico, at $22,164.

Average beginning teacher salaries. Alaska had the highest average beginning salary in 2002-03, at $37,401. States joining Alaska in the top tier were New Jersey, at $35,673; District of Columbia, at $35,260; New York, at $35,259; and California, at $34,805.

Montana had the lowest average beginning salary in 2002-03, at $23,052. The other states in the bottom tier were Maine, at $24,631; South Dakota, at $24,311; North Dakota, at $23,591; and Arizona, at $23,548. "

North Dakota's average, from above: $33,869 Our beginning salary, from above: $23,591 So, yes, do believe that there are low salaries out there! I think we used to be next-to-last so we've made improvements in recent years but have a loooong way to go.

Non-teaching jobs in state government aren't much better...with my last raise I finally am getting just over $30,000 after working in the same job for 27 years. The university does have decent (not great) benefits, though, and the freedom I have to come and go each day and having a job I love and a *great* boss is worth more than more money to me.

Joan

I don't find that hard to believe at all. The U of MD system pays part-time staff instructors (masters required, I believe) $2000 per course...That's only $6000 for a semester if you teach three courses/sections, which can be a LOT of work. No benefits, and required to be on campus for "office hours" for student consultation. I think that's shameful.

sue

I just went on to our county's website and looked at the School Board's section.. Starting teacher salaries are 32k a year.

Gillian Polk County, Florida

WHOA! Please edit more carefully. I did not find the website hard to believe. I found Karen's statement that junior college professors in California start at $30,000 hard to believe. And as it turns out, junior college starting salaries in California range from around $30,000 to almost $50,000, depending on the college, so she wasn't wrong.

Elizabeth

Apples and oranges. There's a huge gap bewteen full-time and part-time salaries. And yes, that is shameful, but you can't use one to gage the other.

Elizabeth

OK, and is the figure you quoted for the miners' salaries starting or with experience? Because otherwise we're comparing apples and oranges here, too.

Elizabeth

The only way for teachers to start getting paid a decent wage is for people to stop voting against school budgets every chance they get. Bemoaning the sad plight of teachers won't get anybody anywhere. Being heard via the voting booth will. It's a sad fact that people against school budgets rally together and get out more voters than people in favor of actually giving the kids in their area a shot at a decent education.

Most school boards have meetings open to the public, if you think teachers deserve more pay tell the school board directly.

Caryn (daughter of two teachers, walked picket lines at Dad's side more than once, and watched the anti-school budget people actually bus folks in to vote no)