OT: THEY FOUND THE MINERS ALIVE!!

Thank you for your expert input on this topic! And well-put responses to numerous posts.

Sara in Morgantown, WV

But typically at a university, you can't even

*get* a full professorship without a PhD, unless they're *really* hurting for candidates (or it's a smaller institution). So typically, you wouldn't have the same position, but get paid more for having a PhD. I have worked at some companies where there was a premium paid for having a PhD (techincal work) where it was possible for two people to essentially be doing the same job with the PhD getting paid more because of the higher level of education, but the differential was nowhere near $50k. You're absolutely right, however, that universities (and most other employers as well) will pay more for credentials in some areas than in others. Heck, even TAs and RAs are often paid differently depending on what area they're working in. I know I got paid a heck of a lot more generously TAing and RAing in the B. school and the Engineering school than those who were TAs or RAs in the liberal arts school at my university, despite the fact that we all had similar levels of education (just in different areas).

Best wishes, Ericka

Sorry I keep forgetting that sarcasm is little understood south of the border. Usually I save it for the Brits. Ruby

It's not easy getting tenure here either, and as far as I know you can't get tenure without a PhD. You can't even teach at a university without a PhD. You can teach at a college with a Masters degree, but not a university.

...Linda

It is my understanding "tenure" refers to a Professor at the University level having a full-time position with a University, and has a pretty much guaranteed job, ie. has been in a full-time positon for a long period of time. As Karen says, it is virtually impossible to fire that Professor.

OTOH, a teacher is someone who teaches at the elementary or secondary school level, not the college or university level. So I don't even think of a "teacher" as I define it as having tenure. They have a full-time teaching position, but may have just a Bachelor's Degree and certification to teach.

...Linda

I think what she was getting at is that he does numerous papers each year and presents them all over the world. I he had a PhD behind his name his income would be substantially higher. He has the experience of a PhD, but not the credentials or the time in at a university.

...Linda

Well...close. Tenure is supposed to protect faculty against being fired because of their intellectual ideas and such. It doesn't mean they can't be fired at all. If one is hired for a tenure track position at a university, there's typically a period of time where you prepare for your tenure review (usually about 7 years) and then you present a portfolio of publications and other information which is reviewed by the tenure committee and they make a decision whether to tenure you or not.

There are elementary or secondary school systems which grant tenure to their teachers.

Best wishes, Ericka

That's also not quite true. Under some circumstances, those without PhDs do, in fact, teach at universities (even aside from the issues of TAs, who obviously don't yet have PhDs). You generally couldn't get a full professorship without a PhD at a university, but some do hire adjuncts without PhDs, especially in some fields.

Best wishes, Ericka

Linda D. wrote:

I'd still be a bit skeptical. If he's working at a university, then yes, a PhD would probably make the difference between a full professorship and an adjunct position or something like that--but that wouldn't be the same job. If he worked, say, at a technical firm like I used to work at (where research and conference and journal contributions were encouraged and PhDs were valued), there were those who did not have PhDs who did all those things alongside PhDs in the same positions; however, the pay differential wasn't close to $50k and it was possible to overcome the gap with experience nad publications. I'd believe that in a reasearch-y line of work he could get a *different* job with a PhD that would pay more, but it's rare in my experience that there would be a $50k difference in the *same* job. (I.e., that if the PhD fairy came and granted him one tomorrow, he could stay in his same position and get an additional $50k as a "PhD bonus.") And, of course, if he's *really* interested in getting a PhD, the European model might suit him very nicely. In many prestigious European universities, you can get a PhD by defending a body of already-published work. You have to make contact with and form a committee of the appropriate faculty, but you don't actually have to go and take classes or anything like that. It's a very strong defense process, but it's doable for someone who really does have the research expertise and a body of work.

Best wishes, Ericka

Thank you from the bottom of my heart!

Cheryl

Nah - we just need a sarcasm font!

Cheryl

Some of them get pretty worn and are hard to "upgrade" (poor wording from the people involved with such things) the carpet (ie replace), the lighting (hardwired in place, not removable by the janitorial staff and requiring an electrician) and poorly insulated.

Cheryl

Part of this might be "market differential"--universities are having to pay people in fields like computer science more money than they pay, say, English profs, in order to compete with the marketplace. However, having taught at a Canadian university, in the ordinary course of things, having a PhD does not of itself double your salary over having a Master's. What it does do is allow you to be tenured or tenure-tracked. However, at the university where I taught, someone tenured going from say "$30,000 to $80,000--a $50,000 jump, would have been unheard of. $50,000 by itself would have been pretty close to the top of the range in most faculties. Dawne

You can teach at a university with an MA, or with certain other degrees--e.g. an LLB. You can teach with strong experience credentials--many business faculities have classes taught by people from the "real world" who do not have PhDs. Fine Arts faculties are another place this often happens. It is up to the faculty involved to seek permission to have the person teach. My DH taught at a university for over 20 years with an LLB, because of his particular area of expertise. All that being said, these people do not often have tenure or tenure-track positions. Dawne

I was mostly speaking of lower schools, up to highschool. I am not sure about University. You may be right, but I think it depends on the field.

In West Virginia, all school employees (teachers, service personnel, etc.) are state employees. Salaries and benefits are set by the wunderkids in Charleston. Some counties do have levies that may boost the salaries a little but most of the ones I'm familiar with are in counties with larger cities (larger by WV standards).