OT Breast Cancer Rant

That is totally appalling, Steve. I have never heard of such a terrible neglect of a patient. Though there are two friends of mine on this group who had similar extremely short hospital stays - though not within one day, and not after the same operation, but they were both major operations. I do hope your friend's mother does OK. . In message , steve writes

Hey Steve:

Well the time for cancer patients stays are getting even shorter than the past few years.

In 1994 a patient's stay was 6 days, 2002 the stay was about 22 hours then the patient would be dumped in a wheelchair out in the hot sun to wait for a bus.

Your friend's mother was treated as an outpatient and that is a real shame. The price for a nurse to come to the home of the patient will be the same as a physician. It truely is a sad day when an insurance companies runs the surgical suite and not the doctors.

I will gladly sign your petition.

Kate T. South Mississippi

That's inhumane... off to the site right now.

Well, when signing the petition, I entered a few comments. Here's what I had to say.

I just read an email from a friend who has a friend at home taking care of his mom who was discharged 6.5 HOURS after her complete left mastectomy, I work in veterinary medicine and our patients are hospitalized until proper care can be taken of them at home. Having a large chunk of flesh with a not inconsiderable amount of emotional involvement attached removed should merit more than a few paltry hours in a hospital. It's not a mole or wart to be excised; a breast is wrapped up in a woman's view of herself. And the area of the surgery is highly mobile and very painful post-operatively and tends to accumulate fluid, all things that should be managed by health care professionals. No lay family member, not matter how well-intentioned and caring, is equipped for the aftercare required. Sad that we treat our pets with more consideration and dignity than we do our own wives, sisters and mothers.

Steve, my heart goes out to you and your friend's family (and the millions of others who are suffering or affected by breast cancer). I'm praying for you all! :(

I have no idea if this is the norm ... but I'm going to find out - at least for my home state (not sure how to check for another). To think that it might be the norm is disgusting and appalling. It's just one more case of "conveyor belt" healthcare. For YEARS women's healthcare has been steadily going this route. :(

Not the same thing, but I remember a few years ago when I had my son, a woman I'd met was being sent home after the customary TWO days in the hospital following giving birth. Her doctor didn't want her to leave - she was hemorrhaging VERY badly. The poor woman could barely stand up (not that standing up after giving birth is an easy proposition). But her insurance refused to cover additional stay and she couldn't afford the $$ to stay past her coverage.

Meanwhile, my son and I ended up staying for over a week - turns out that we were exposed to chickenpox and had to be quarantined (but only I ended up with CP - and even then, it was AFTER the hospital stay). Once it became an issue other than woman's health our insurance had no qualms paying for it. So apparently, a childhood illness rates higher on the "need" scale for insurance companies than dangerous post-natal complications.

But still, I can't imagine sending home a woman who's just had a breast removed - ESPECIALLY if she were advanced in years. AFAIK, that would leave more complications open and require extra care.

Now, what I'm wondering is how it would handled in Europe? Hubby, on his trip, just sprained his knee and had to go to a local hospital - he said UK's healthcare system REALLY kicks our butt (in fact, he's talking about either running for office and changing things or moving there - but then, he IS on pain-killers). Will anyone from the UK pipe up and let us know??

If you feel seriously about this issue to respond, signing the petition is not extremely helpful. If you want to make a difference, send an email to your federal congressman and senators. Put your name and complete address at the bottom. Include a few SHORT remarks about why this issue is important to you.

I have been actively involved in several "marches" in Washington, D.C. on behalf of the genetic disorder my son has. I have met with not only congressmen and senators... but more often their health-care aides. Meet with them at their local offices. If your issue has touched your life, include a picture and a short story. Give them a face to remember. (In 5 years of meeting with DC politicians and their aides, we have received appropriations especially earmarked for research for our disability in excess of $10 million dollars. Meeting with them face-to-face en mass does make a difference. Those who can't go to Washington that weekend email that weekend. So we get our issue in front of them hundreds (maybe thousands!!) of times within a week. It works!)

I have learned that a bunch of "names" on a petition does not carry much water. Elected officials listen to their constituents. They want to be re-elected. So a personal message directly to the person who casts YOUR ballot will carry far more weight.

So if this issue is important to you, spread the word around your local community hand state and get written messages (emails) to them en mass. Remind them that they are there to voice the opinion of their constituents. Remind them that they are there to represent you ... and this is the message you want them to hear and represent.

You can find contact information for your representatives here:

Of if you don't speak Spanish. (oops! haven't had my coffee yet!)

Try these links:

Steve, awful as it is to say, I believe that this truly *is* the norm these days. I know far too many people who are sent home to care for themselves or to have family members care for them, when what they need is trained medical personnel to make sure that things are going smoothly. It's a scandal.

I think I'd start by firing the dr. I did some nosing around and can't find anywhere that has info on what state laws are at this time. I know there are some already inacted and if anyone can find a good list of that info I'd like to see it. A close friend is just finishing up post bc reconstruction. Here in CA insurance companies have to provide that as per law. I don't know about hospital stay length though. I bet there already are some laws in place. We should at least be informed about those. Sending well wishes to your students mom. I do have to say for anyone thinking socialized medicine will fix our problems to look at the bridge that the government is in charge of keeping safe for us. They don't do a good job at much of anything except line their pockets it sometimes seems. Taria

steve wrote:

My mum had a lumpectomy, not a mastectomy, she was in hospital 8 days!!! This was a private hospital, rather than NHS hospital in the UK, she'd still have been in 4+ days on the NHS.

As with everything, somethings are better in the UK, some are worse, I've lived 27 years in the UK, and only 1 in the US, with various problems I've had at this particular time, the US system has treated me well, we do have very good insurance, but even with less good insurance, I likely still could have done pretty well, due to the element of choice, something that in practice you don't get in the UK, or at least don't get in some areas (both geographical and medical!).

On the other hand, whilst pregnancy and postnatal is underfunded and understaffed, I'd still far rather be pregnant and have a baby in the UK , I have American friends who've done both and prefer the UK system!

Cheers Anne

No, Taria. It is not a choice for everyone. Medical insurance has become more common as an employment perq., and now more individuals are taking it out themselves - it is quite flexible and you can choose what elements can be covered. On the other hand, if you are prepared to pay the full amount yourselves, it is open to 'everyone' - all who can afford it, anyway. But, the theoretical choice is there for everyone.

Having the National Health Service, as it is called, is a great boon to the vast majority of the population. Very few people pay privately for their family doctor; people over a certain age, or with a life-dependant medication, receive free prescriptions. Children and seniors receive free eye tests. Children receive free dental treatment, on the whole - though some dentists' practices are now 'private only' (there has been quite a bit of trouble about dentists' contract terms). Mostly, you can opt to see a specialist privately, as it is normally quicker. However, if you have an accident on the road (or anywhere) you are taken straight to the nearest hospital in a free ambulance, and you are treated free. Some specialisms have awfully long waiting lists; and there are certainly problems. Some medications are not funded by all Health Authorities (eg some of the Alzheimer's and cancer treatments which are very expensive). In those situations, you could opt to pay for it, if you can afford it.

Just a summary - apologies if I have omitted 'stuff'. . In message , Taria writes

Yep, I know. Simply changing our healthcare system to socialized wouldn't help (though, hubby would disagree - he does have that nasty optimist streak) ... our whole system is screwed up (proud to be an American - don't get me wrong). The powers that be would find a way to corrupt it and fatten their bank accounts. :(

Like I said, I'm durn proud to be an American. But the heart of this nation is the average person, not the politicians. Them, I don't support, except for a VERY few. Mainly because they don't support US. And as my momma used to say, you can't spell "US of A" without US! :(

Yea, I guess that would be the case - each system having it's pros and cons. But still, no one in your system gets left out, right? I mean, the single mom who barely keeps ends at arm's length will STILL have healthcare, right? Her baby has less chance of dying of some childhood illness merely because she couldn't afford vaccinations, right?

My point is, I guess, that with your system, even though the choices are limited, everyone's covered. No one's left out. I used to volunteer at local food kitchens and you'd be surprised at how many people are left without healthcare ... more than you think. Most are kids. :(

What's most important to me - and I guess, because I DO have good insurance and choices I might be skewed in my priorities - is that single moms who can barely afford day care, much less food, can still get healthcare for their babies. Little old ladies can still get adequate healthcare - and not just dumped on a sidewalk after a dangerous (and traumatizing) procedure.

Thanks Patti, I am just curious how it all works. The grass is always greener, you know. Last mammogram I had (we personally have insurance through employment) was in a hospital and the made me sign a paper that informed me if I couldn't pay they would help connect me with a program that would. They had to offer it to me. We are HMO in a somewhat remote location (medically that is) which means many of our doctors are sub par. I have had to make the decision to go to a doctor of choice for cash. It wasn't easy financially at that time but when it comes to good health not a lot is more important. Nationalized health care is coming here. I just don't like the idea of not having choices. There isn't much the government does well, any government. Taria

Patti wrote:

The NHS has waiting times for most things, they have been reduced, but

Many companies provide health insurance for their employees, as it's cheaper to do that then deal with the increased number of sick days due to unresolved medical problems.

My parents weren't in that situation, but about 15 years ago, they saw a good deal on insurance for the whole family and went for it, hence this operation being in a private hospital, I think it was the first time she'd used the insurance, obviously now her premium has gone up significantly, but they still feel it's worth it.

I was covered on their plan until I was 21, I ended up having 2 joint surgeries, my doctor referred me on the NHS too and when they sent through appointment dates for initial consultation they were over a year, and then it could have been a year or more on the surgery waiting list.

Cheers Anne

If you opt to pay for medication, you also have to go private with the rest of your treatment - there are moves to change this and allow people to continue with NHS treatment but pay drug costs, but there is an equally strong lobby against it as they don't want to start a system where some things are free and some things are charged and see it as the start of a slippery slope. Though with drug prices for some drugs the way they are, I can't see how the NHS ever will be able to pay all the costs.

Cheers Anne

Absolutely! The problem is, I can't see the NHS staying entirely free for long, dental treatment for years has always had small fees attached (current problems with dentists in the UK are a whole other story!) and I can see things like that coming in in other areas. However childhood vaccines are going to be near last on the list for having a charge attached to them, as would anything relating to children - there is no payment for anything relating to children and anything that could potentially have a charge has numerous clauses giving it free to certain people, so women get things free whilst pregnant and upto a year after the birth.

Though it seems great that it's basically free, when you dig deeper there are a lot of issues, physical therapy is often restricted in the number of sessions, they also seem to use a restricted number of techniques. If you have a rare condition that isn't life threatening, you often can't see a specialist as if they are not in your area, your GP has to apply for funding for you to see someone out of area, which you won't get in many areas if it's not life threatening.

It's complex, I don't think there is any right answer, if you go to nationalised health care, you are almost certainly going to have a private system running along side it, because there always are people who will pay.

Cheers Anne

Steve, I had a mastectomy and a modified mastectomy in Sept. 2003. I had them on a Thursday and went home Monday afternoon. I could have stayed for another 2 days but I was feeling so good, I wanted to get home. I don't understand some insurance companies. A woman or man needs 2 or 3 days, not counting the surgery day. I have signed this petition and others. I hope someone does something.

Venting is good... Hope your friend is doing okay.

Deanna