On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 14:45:44 -0400, vj wrote (in message ):
Playground? We had a couple in the area, and I'd bring DD there to burn off some steam on even the yuckiest days. (I didn't care how muddy/filthy she got, since kids wash clean) If you live anywhere near a beach, you can have your little dude throw rocks into the water or drag big pieces of seaweed (call them fegawi fish or seaweek) up and down the beach. DD would spend every Friday afternoon with her grandfather, skipping rocks on the beach.
I always had a couple of sandboxes, one on the screened porch and one in the yard, and let her dig with an old teaspoon until she tired herself out. If she seemed bored with plain old digging, I'd throw some coins into the sand and let her play "digging for pirate treasure."
If you live in an area where there's snow, you can send out the kid with a squirt bottle filled with colored water. DD used to stamp her name into the snow and color it in lurid colors. Naturally, she slept well after an hour or two of snow play.
We made snowmen once in a while, but would rather make snow monsters, snow turtles, or big snow boulders to smash. That was great during her "let's hit people when we're unhappy" phase -- I always told her that it was fine to smash a pillow or a snow boulder, or to throw rocks into the water, but hurting people or animals or breaking things in the house was a Bad Way to burn off steam.
If there's some kind of music you like (not necessarily that Raffi stuff - I couldn't bear listening to it), teach your child to dance. DD really loved reggae, and would dance wildly for hours to burn off some steam. I also got one of those fairly large exercise balls and matching videotape and let her do a "buns of steel" workout. She loved it.
Hope this helps a little, and can help you springboard with some ideas of your own.
On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:00:03 -0400, Helen C wrote (in message ):
We had that happen once. A bucket, sponge and parental edict to "scrub that damn stuff off the wall" made marking the walls a lot less attractive. (No, she didn't get off; but that wasn't the point)
I have always been fairly strict about keeping the house in one piece, and didn't have the destruction problems you have, so take what I have to say with that in mind.
Wrecking things gets way less attractive when you have to repair them. When DD had to clean up broken or spilled things, or pulled her shade down onto the floor or shoved a mouse pad into the VCR, she got to "fix it." Her disapproving mother would stand over her as she tried to figure out how to fix things and attempt to do them. My mom did the same thing when my siblings and I were small (there were three of us with less than two years between us).
Putting the youngsters to work tires them out and gives you marginally less housework. I used to set DD to work with the carpet sweeper when she was three or four, and if she actually got any dust off the carpet, it was a bonus. (Those swiffer cloths are good for making them dust, too) It was about that time when I taught her to fold washcloths and towels and put them in the linen cabinet. She could also put away the silverware, put dirty clothes in front of the washer and help set the table. At about five, she graduated to making sure that there was always toilet paper on the spindle, consolidating all the little trash cans into one large bag for taking to the curb and putting the recyclables into the blue bin.
Yep, that last bit of time before they go to school is tough as nails. They're big enough to be destructive, but not really mature enough to take care of themselves for any more than a few minutes.
Is there a play group in the area where they can run around with other kids and tire themselves out?
Sure. I don't think I have enough sanity. And they'd end up throwing water everywhere and making even more of a mess. But, it wouldn't hurt to try. I just hate standing over them like that. Makes me feel like a warden or something.
That might work. I usually just end up taking things away. Like I've said before, it's amazing what you can live without.
They'll do these things for dad or the babysitter (whoever it may be) but they COMPLETELY ignore me. And then wonder why I get frustrated. I ask nicely, I suggest, I yell (alot) and then I give up and ignore them (not completely, just they won't do anything for me, I won't do anything for them)
There's a playground a couple blocks down, but if it's just me (and it usually is) it involves getting them all dressed (and keeping them that way), hauling out the double stroller, grabbing something to drink, getting them down there, convincing them it's time to play, not just sit there and drink and as soon as any one of the has to go potty, it's right back home for everyone. Or, I could just let them play out in the street like all the rest of the neighbors (well, not all, it just seems like it)
Any parenting tips would be appreciated. I know I'm just missing SOMETHING here. (Why did my mom have to have me so late and surround me with older people without kids?) Survival skills, yes! Parenting skills, no.
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Kathy N-V :
]We had that happen once. A bucket, sponge and parental edict to "scrub that ]damn stuff off the wall" made marking the walls a lot less attractive. (No, ]she didn't get off; but that wasn't the point)
exactly! and all that scrubbing is WORK!
]I have always been fairly strict about keeping the house in one piece, and ]didn't have the destruction problems you have, so take what I have to say ]with that in mind. ] ]Wrecking things gets way less attractive when you have to repair them.
AMEN!
]Putting the youngsters to work tires them out and gives you marginally less ]housework. I used to set DD to work with the carpet sweeper when she was ]three or four, and if she actually got any dust off the carpet, it was a ]bonus. (Those swiffer cloths are good for making them dust, too) It was ]about that time when I taught her to fold washcloths and towels and put them ]in the linen cabinet. She could also put away the silverware, put dirty ]clothes in front of the washer and help set the table. At about five, she ]graduated to making sure that there was always toilet paper on the spindle, ]consolidating all the little trash cans into one large bag for taking to the ]curb and putting the recyclables into the blue bin.
Absolutely, Helen - those kids create a LOT of work - you know that. Sit them all down with a list of ALL the chores that need to be done and let them help pick what they are going to be doing, but make them help - it'll not only give them something to do beside find trouble, it will also make them feel better about themselves and MAYBE they won't make such a mess, if they know they have to clean it up.
]Yep, that last bit of time before they go to school is tough as nails.
no kidding! but it DOES pass.
thanks, Kathy! i was having senile blackouts again.
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
formatting link
formatting link
's not what you take, when you leave this world behind you;it's what you leave behind you when you go. -- Randy Travis
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Helen C" :
]Sure. I don't think I have enough sanity. And they'd end up throwing water ]everywhere and making even more of a mess. But, it wouldn't hurt to try. I ]just hate standing over them like that. Makes me feel like a warden or ]something.
do it anyway. for now, you ARE the warden. and if they know they can get around it, they will. if they know you don't WANT to discipline them, they will take it and run with it. you can't do it any other way, because if you don't do it now, the authorities will do it later - guaranteed! and you won't be doing them any favors to convince them they can get away with anything if they gang up on you.
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
formatting link
formatting link
's not what you take, when you leave this world behind you;it's what you leave behind you when you go. -- Randy Travis
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from "Helen C" :
]Parenting skills, no.
and that does seem to be what you may be missing. there are usually free parenting classes run in most locations. for just that reason. mostly to teach teens how to be parents, unfortunately, but also for anyone who didn't get those skills growing up. the first five years for a child [my dad swore it was the first TWO] are critical. and probably 95% of it comes down to discipline.
think about WHY the kids do it for someone else. because they don't want to be "out of favor". if there is a reward for GOOD behavior, they might be more willing to try for you, too.
they want your attention, obviously. sometimes, it's a matter of accepting that for the next "so many" years, i wasn't going to be doing much BUT child care. if i had chores to do - they helped. trust me, they got their bottoms smacked more than once if it became absolutely necessary. but kids NEED attention. and they'll do anything to get it. BAD attention is better than NO attention. so - - keep them moving, working, playing, whatever from the minute they get up until they're tired. the more "fresh air" they get, the better.
did Jamie and Johnny periodically get away from me? sure they did. and they worked to clean up their disaster. they WILL find that it's better to play nice than have to do chores for misbehaving. pick one particular chore NONE of them want to do. that's the one they get when they mess up big-time. and then you stand over them to make them do it. by the time Johnny was three and Jamie was four and one-half, they could usually spend several hours outside with me checking up on them periodically. granted, there were only two of them. but playing with each other was much preferable to sitting in a corner in a chair for fighting, or whatever evil scheme i came up with.
then, they're SO worn out that dinner is quieter, baths are easier and a way of relaxing them right into bed. and then THAT time is yours.
hard? damn right it is!
frustrating? all too true.
but it pays off. for you AND them.
and we'll get to teenagers down the road.
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
formatting link
formatting link
's not what you take, when you leave this world behind you;it's what you leave behind you when you go. -- Randy Travis
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Kathy N-V :
]SPD? Never heard that acronym.
Sacramento Police Department. they were the first police department in the country to create a high-school "academy", much like an ROP program, but much, much more. they came to Jamie's school in jr high, and she fell in love. when Johnny saw it, he did too. and he's never looked back. probably saved his life.
need more info, just let me know. i owe them a LOT.
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
formatting link
formatting link
's not what you take, when you leave this world behind you;it's what you leave behind you when you go. -- Randy Travis
On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 18:52:25 -0400, Helen C wrote (in message ):
Who said anything about water? I gave her a damp, wrung out sponge and a bucket and that was it. Yes, I'm mean. No, I don't care.
Sometimes you have to be a bad guy to be a good parent. It sucks, but it's the truth. Can't tell you how many times I cried my eyes out for having to be so tough.
Having friends to talk to about all this stuff helps a lot -- I have a couple of friends with kids the same age, and we could all vent to one another. Also, my sister and I have a standing agreement about venting: either one can call the other, say "I need to vent," then spill our guts while the other makes reassuring noises. It really, really helps.
I didn't take anything away, like decor or stuff, because DD had to learn that there were off limits things at a very young age. (I've always had medical equipment and strong meds around the house, and she just had to know to stay away.) I had to have an eagle eye when she was very small, but it worked out in the long run.
I don't let kids off that easy. When DD was small, and even later when I had gangs of kids all over the house, I'd say something like "Once this laundry is away, we can go to the playground. Here are the washcloths."
The key is sounding like you wouldn't even think that they'd ignore you. If they kept on playing, I'd pick up whatever toy, or turn off the tv and say, "You obviously didn't hear me. It's time to gather up the trash, please. Are you big enough to do it yourself, or do I have to walk you back and forth like a little baby?" Stand there and wait for an answer.
A correlated activity is the raised eyebrow and the statement, "Are you going to behave now, or are we going to have a lesson in bringing you up, right here, in front of all these people?"
I only had to do the "public lesson" thing once. I took DD into the parking lot of a restaurant and we talked about behaving. I told her we could sit on the curb until she was willing to behave, and could control herself. It took about ten minutes of sobbing before she calmed down. Then I wiped off her face, and we went back to eat.
By the time she was school aged, I didn't even need the phrase: the raised eyebrow was enough.
It's worth the effort. BTW, the rule was that everyone has to pee before we leave the house, and the only one getting a drink is me. I'd keep one small bottle of water for DD, but only for emergencies. I never brought juice boxes or anything like that unless we were having a picnic, and we only had picnics in places with bathrooms - thank God for those handicapped stalls - they could hold me and about six preschoolers, and no one could escape. (before anyone says anything: Having a bunch of babies with you is a definite handicap, and I never felt guilty about using the stall for a few moments)
Skip the playing in the street, unless it's a dead end or cul-de-sac. My brother lives on a cul-de-sac and he made sawhorses to put across the street for when the kids were playing. All the neighbors bought into this, and the kids could play in the street and be safe. Otherwise, it's not worth risking a dead kid for a convenient place to play.
If you can, skip the stroller on the way to the park, and make everyone hold hands. (if you have to, harnesses are not a bad thing, and learn selective blindness and deafness when near the stupid people who don't understand about greased, lightning-fast children with a death wish) The walk will help with tiring them out. Besides, why should you have to walk while everyone else rides?
It's not at all easy. When DD was small, I _lived_ over on misc.kids. It's now been overrun by loons, but misc.kids.moderated is still a great and safe place to learn parenting stuff. I know it sure didn't come naturally for me, and I am so glad I found some good people to help me along the journey.
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Kathy N-V :
]Who said anything about water? I gave her a damp, wrung out sponge and a ]bucket and that was it. Yes, I'm mean. No, I don't care. ] ]Sometimes you have to be a bad guy to be a good parent. It sucks, but it's ]the truth. Can't tell you how many times I cried my eyes out for having to ]be so tough.
EXACTLY! listen to her, Helen! being a GOOD parent is the hardest job in the world. but it has to be done.
and Jamie actually came to me a couple of years ago, and said "thank you".
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
formatting link
formatting link
's not what you take, when you leave this world behind you;it's what you leave behind you when you go. -- Randy Travis
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from snipped-for-privacy@aol.compuppies (Dr. Sooz) :
]And those things are wonderful (used correctly). I wish more parents would use ]them. People who think they're barbaric are thinking too much. (Or not ]enough)
definitely. they were "harnesses" that zipped up the back - and that's where the leash clipped. **sigh** i hated doing it, but one child was killed in front of our apartment complex and it made a believer out of me. it didn't take them long to learn that IF they behaved, held my hand, didn't suddenly change directions on me, etc, then they were allowed to not have to wear it.
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
formatting link
formatting link
's not what you take, when you leave this world behind you;it's what you leave behind you when you go. -- Randy Travis
On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 20:50:36 -0400, Dr. Sooz wrote (in message ):
Oh My God. I'm raising my daughter to be a Husky!
Only kidding. I've raised her to listen to instructions, but to evaluate rather than blindly obey. I've never had anyone complain about her behavior, even though she has never been one for unthinking total obedience.
Sophie, OTOH, obeys me with one exception: I am unable to shut her up. She'll stop barking, but always has to let out a little "ruff" to let me know that she's having the last word. It's her tenth birthday today, so we celebrated by having some pork fried rice for lunch. (My MIL, bless her, always had pork fried rice for dinner on Friday night. She would always share with Sophie, although I totally disapproved.)
vj found this in rec.crafts.beads, from Kathy N-V :
]Sophie, OTOH, obeys me with one exception: I am unable to shut her up. ]She'll stop barking, but always has to let out a little "ruff" to let me know ]that she's having the last word.
LOL - my cat treats me that way, too.
of course, he doesn't bark - he just give it one last "rrooowl" to let me know what he thinks. he DOES know what "no!" means, tho. both cats do!
----------- @vicki [SnuggleWench] (Books)
formatting link
formatting link
's not what you take, when you leave this world behind you;it's what you leave behind you when you go. -- Randy Travis
On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 14:59:58 -0400, vj wrote (in message ):
It was for my DD, too; but it had an unforeseen drawback. When DD left there to go to first grade, she was so used to having complete freedom, it was hellish for her to adjust to parochial school. As I should have realized, pariochial schools and Montessori schools have opposite philisophies. At the time, we were simply looking for the "best" school in the area, because our assigned elementary school was (and is) abysmal.
In the long run, it turned out all right. Montessori taught her a lot of good methods for internal self-control, and parochial school gave her an intense foundation in all the elementary school basics. Even three years later, she's far ahead of her classmates with what she learned at St. Joe's.
With the supplemental learning we're doing, she should have no problem getting into the Advanced Placement track at our local high school. I was in that same program (a lot) of years ago, and managed to test out of nearly two years of college. I've told DD that anything that saves me $60K is not optional for her. :-)
My parents used one on me because once I started to walk I wouldn't stop! Mum would stoop to look at something, while shopping in particular, and I'd just keep on walking until I got to the end of the leash.
Unfortunately, it's like with cable TV... over 200 channels of the same 5 shows.... Kids that do well in classrooms are rewarded with "GATE" status, and allowed self-paced independant study... kids that can't conform to classroom "society" are forced to stay in standard classrooms.
And when a good option does come up for problem kids-- like small classes with specially trained teachers-- everybody else wants that, too, and the kids that NEED it no longer have it because there aren't enough teachers and classrooms to meet the demand. And they can't discriminate....
To get my problem child accepted into a "special program" took a couple of years of fighting with the school district-- and him getting a "third strike" at his regular middle school. And even after everybody with authority agreed he needed THAT special program, it still took over 3 months to actually get him IN the program. Then, after a couple of years, the program emphasis was changed (so previously "unqualified" students could be in it), and it no longer served the needs of the original students. Of course, he then "failed" again....
It was nearly a full time job fighting with the school district from 6th through 12th grade... on top of the full time job riding herd on him.... Kaytee "Simplexities" on
InspirePoint website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.