OT: Home Schooling

COOL! I hope you will hang around here. I'm sure there are plenty of people here who would be happy enablers to help you reach some of those dreams.

I hear your pa> Yeah, I have read some of them. I don't enjoy doing needlework

-- Brenda

Melinda Meahan opined: >>getting back up to speed on my piano playing after having shattered my >> wrist a few years back (I can no longer reach an octave with my right >> hand but am trying to keep hope that with practice it will improve),

Brenda Lewis then responded:

My father played mostly by ear. He loved to emulate some of the early jazz piano greats (Fats Waller, etc.) and had large enough hands to easily do tenths.

Well, I was jealous, so as a teen I worked hard to stretch my hands so that I, too, could reach a tenth. Not easily, but I can play them swiftly enough on most reaches to rival those with larger hands.

My mentor/coach in my thirties couldn't reach an octave: small hands. We played a LOT of piano duets and duos and much of it required octave work. She would always give me the parts that had the most octaves in it. I was overjoyed after I had long left her coaching when she wrote and said she could now play an octave! And she was in her late sixties!!

So, it's possible, with perseverence, to stretch those tendons and muscles. :-)

Dianne

Up till now, I've read this thread with interest, but seeing this particular post - I feel I have to comment. As Melinda stated earlier, and correctly, Muslim women are required to cover their hair once they reach the age of puberty. Unfortunately, I have many friends of Middle Eastern and European culture who have cast aside their Islamically-mandated modesty and adopted the secular ways of those who do not cover their heads and are not practicing the Faith. Perhaps is it these people who are also influencing your opinion. But covering one's head has EVERYTHING to do with Islam - I should know, I'm a Muslim! The life of the Prophet Muhammad, and that of the Prophet Jesus, and that of the Prophet Moses (peace be upon them all) serve as an example for Muslims - men and women alike, within the context of the teaching of the Holy Qur'an. Certainly, when studying these situations, Muslim scholars will look at the context of the before and after of the situation and of the cultural norms and of what change Islam was attempting to bring about before making a blanket statement. The incident to which you are refferring happened after a wedding of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to one of his wives when two guests stayed much later than everyone else and happened to be alone in the room with the new bride. At this point, it was commanded that there should be modesty between men and women. Again - note that the command applies to both. As far as the comment about many wives - it is true that marriage was encouraged for men in a society where girls were buried alive upon birth and sons inherited their mothers after the passing away of the fathers. The Arabians were very corrupt in their ways and customs. Women were treated worse than cattle, they were literally property. Islam raised women to a level which they had never held in history. Women were allowed to own property and conduct business at a time when the rest of the world could not think to even allow women to learn to read. Muslim women became teachers and prepared great scholars, scientists and mathematicians. Many of the discoveries of modern science and astrology have taken off from the initial studies of Muslim societies. Muslims conducted the first surgical procedures. Even the number system of today is from the Arabic. For hundreds of years prior to the Crusades, Muslims, Jews and Christians lived together peacefully under Muslim rule in Spain.

For Muslim men and women, modesty is a way of life, not only of dress, but of speech, of living, of spending, of interaction - men and women alike. Even in giving charity, Muslims are to be most modest - it is taught that if your right hand gives charity, it should be so concealed that even your left hand should not know it (figuratively of course) so as to salvage the pride of the receiver. So calling the headcovering which has historically been observed by all the monotheistic faiths a call of war, I feel, is an insult to all the women throughout history who have ever covered their head and bowed in prayer, or to read from the Torah, or the Bible, or the Quran.

Sorry to be so long-winded but I felt I ought to address this. Here's a website that may explain it a bit better than I can:

Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:

Nadia There was a very interesting film made by the National Film Board of Canada talking to young Muslim women living here who had returned to wearing headcovering, although some came from Westernised families where their mothers had discarded it. They were most eloquent about their choice, not only as an element of their faith, but also in a feminist context, where the modesty mandated by faith was also a statement about the value of women--they felt no need to display themselves as sexualised objects, as so many young girls seem to feel pressured to do today. They saw the veil as freeing, rather than oppressing, them. Not everyone might agree, but they certainly made an articulate case. Dawne

Dawn, I can certainly see where they're coming from, I myself didn't wear the headcovering until about two years after I converted to Islam and have found it to be a most liberating experience - just the opposite of how it's perceived. I feel more peaceful and self-confident now than I ever have in my life not only about my faith, but just about being a woman and how I view myself in the mirror, even. And I cannot explain how...but I think I'm treated with more respect now that I do wear it than I was when I didn't - from family and colleagues alike.

I wasn't aware of that film - can you get me the name? I'd be very interested to see it.

Nadia (who thinks she might have fractured her hand while shopping for luggage this past weekend - ouch)

Dawne Peters> Nadia

Nadia , sabbah -el kher !! I hope your hand heals quickly, Some of my Suni students wore beautiful headkerchifs , but not all by choice. lately i see a new interesting trend here , among young Muslim women. dressed up in slick tight fitting pants, and well cut shirts, but a rather hiding headcover [ face open but hair hiden] Muslim Nurses in Israel have been permitted to fashion a special head cover , that covered more hair , than the usual regulation Nurse`s cap. I have dressed in several Burka and other head covers , to get the feeling of my students. I respect anyone who wants to wear anything for belief. But i do oppose it`s being done by force , And I am very Sure we haven`t seen so much in former years In the Local Muslim communities, none of which was Westernized , like those in Canada. I think you are mixing up traditions that develop over generations, and than are called Fik [ i am not sure how ro write this in English] A Regulation , made for a certain reason at it`s time and than it stays as part of the Codex. And as you quite know it differes from country to country. If it was indeed a One clear Religious reuest , all Muslim women all over the world would have walked with the SAME amount of head cover ,, but you don`t. Thus it is an iterpretation of some saying. IF the rule was equal to men and women , How come men do not cover up as much,, and please believe i say this with great respect. When i taught i asked guidance from the Kadi`s wife as to waht was permitted and not permitted to teach in fiberart and art, [ regarding forms images etc...] As to your Statement that In Spain , Muslim was Peaceful to both Jews and Christians ,,, I am sorry you are wrongly informed, The MUslim and Jews lived together wonderfully and it is Called The Golden Area ., But Christians were Not Tolerated by the Muslims at all under their rule in Spain. And when the Christians Conquered Spain back ,, they retaliated on both Muslims and Jews. mirjam

Nadia , there is something else , you converted to Islam , and live in a western society around you. I am not sure how much you really are aware of how Your Muslim sisters live in Muslim countries, where there is no Other law , No civil law to protect them. Yes there are Famous names of Well learned well off women , in the Muslim societies, But not all are free. Murder in the name of `family honor` is still practiced all over. And i hope this will stop happening. We all hope to be able to practice our beliefs and live in Mutual respect. mirjam

I just checked my public library's website (I cannot imagine life without it). The video is called "Under one sky : Arab women in North America talk about the Hijab "/ National Film Board of Canada. It was made in 1999. Dawne

Thanks Dawn - I'll make a point to look it up once I return home.

Nadia

Dawne Peters> I just checked my public library's website (I cannot imagine life without

The difference here is that you are judging what Islam mandates by what you see women of various cultures doing. I am simply explaining to you what Islam states and directs. One can judge followers by their professed beliefs, but one cannot judge an entire Faith by its followers who may or may not adhere completely. Again - Fiqh, is not something that is newly evolved. Each item you attempt to quote is and has been part of the Islamic faith since the very beginning.....perhaps it is now refined and many more people understand and are therefore returning to their roots. I have certainly seen this in our parents generations. They grew up at a time when education standards for religious as well as secular learning were lax to do extended periods of war and economic hardship. Now that we have once again returned to placing learning first, we return to the correct ways of our grandparents and those who followed Islam when it was not affected by immodest cultures. All I'm trying to clarify here is that the headscarf is in fact Islamically mandated and not, as you stated, a new fundamentalist symbol to incite war. I'd rather not get pulled into an argument of historic trivia as I've got much too much going on at the moment and wouldn't want to not give my full attention to the matter as I do consider it important - I simply wanted to clear up the misinformation. Thanks, Nadia

Dianne Lewandowski wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@individual.net:

That's true, but my problem is that when they re-set all the bone fragments, they ended up rotated a little off from perfect. If it had been my left hand, I would have to give up playing viola completely because I no longer have enough motion in the wrist to be able to do the higher positions. Now, if I could get in there with a chisel and chip the bone ends away so they didn't block the other bones from giving me full motion.... LOL

"Dawne Peterson" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com:

I read an article on some place called something like Jewish World Daily or something like that where a lady had converted from Reform Judaism to Orthodox Judaism because she saw the strength in Orthodox Jewish ladies and similarly came to view the requirements for Orthodox ladies as freeing rather than oppressing. Having had a similar experience myself in traveling from a mainline/liberal denomination to a fundamental separatist group, I can understand.

I am sorry Nadia , I seemed not clear enough. I agree with you that islamic cultural tradition, require that a `married` woman covers her head. But Melinda brought as an example, the New law in France Regarding Girls covering their heads in schools. If you had like me traveled in Europe nowadays , you might have seen the Little muslim girls , kindergarten age , who are sent to schools there with headkerschieves , and even you would agree, that this is not a religious requirement. It is a political statement. The political frictions in Europe between the Established mainly Christian Citizens with minorities of other religions, and the Fast growing Muslim emigrants , is mainly a political issue, of shifting powers. There are places where the Great muslim Community already demands independent posiivillities to have their own courst system at least , about family matters. In this political and sociological friction , the demand to dress girls ,[ even youger than is the tradition , in their home countries] with headscarves , while in the public, Secular schools sytems , is a political excercize, a probing finger to check, how far one can get , in imposing other rules on the hosting government. Please, note that i am not speaking negatively , nore positvely about this , but i am giving my observations , as to waht happens. I am getting daily Newpaper cuts about The Headkersarves Issue, from European papers. And It is the same pattern, This is always The First demand that the Muslim Emigrants do. if they manage that one , they ask for another. In Holland the state allows for State funded Muslim schools. [ just as it always had state funded Catholic, Protestant and Jewish schools. But after the Murder of Theo Van-Gogh, last year, there were demands [ and there are still], that the goverment should have some controll over what is taught in those schools. As a By note , i must say that it is probably an ironic play of History. That when the imperialistic powers conquered Asia , and Africa they `dressed up` the local `Nude & Barbaric` populations , in thr name of `Christian Morals` .. Now The Descendants of those populations migrate to Europe, and try to `dress up ` the Europeans in the name of `Muslim Morals` ....isn`t history cynical????

I am not judging by what i see, but i live close enough to big Muslim societies, have taught in Muslim towns, and can vouch for the changing dressing habits , in those societies, During my over 50 years of living side by side with them. You seem to be much younger than me, you say you converted to Islam. And i think that you live in a Western society . I did a lot of research and asked questions, from Learned people,in each religion. Since i was curious about those [exremely obvious] changing dress habits, which by the way parallel , symilar dress habits changes in Fundamental Christian and Jewish communities. I wasn`t [ and still am not] impressed that any of those changes [ happening at all 3 faiths at about the same time !!!] are really original Muslim , or Original Jewish , or Original Christian , Going back to the Sources rulings. One interesting and telling example is, the way Holy places of all religions treat Tourists. In the 50s and 60s, Muslim places demand only that you take your shoes of. Christain places demnded that you take your Hat of, While Jewish places asked the males to cover their heads. Slowly , creepingly, All three Religions started to demand that tourists cover up , as much as possible, and they started to provide pieces of cloth , which they insist people put over bare arms , bare feet etc... interesting enough the original demands were modified, in some ways. The last Evidence, for me that this was some Trend, which origins are somewhere between entrenchement and rivalry, happened when even the Bahaai , who never made much fuss about tourists arms or legs , suddenly also started to provide the cover up cloth. Also the Druze population , seem to have some young people who tend to be more fundamental religious , than some of their parents. A general Trend like this, can`t be seen as a `root` or `back to roots` religious demand. It is a global trend, and it derives more from the Global Ideological frictions , than from any Faith System.

It is just my real life , daily observing , of changes in the dress codes of people i know , speak with , and have worked with, and who openly speak with me about their beliefs, which gives me an interesting point of view. My colleagues have not changed their faith, some have become more observant, some are less observant. Several of them made the Hag`. I fully respect the way , you live your life, But i hope that you don`t insist that your interpretation of the traditions is the Only possible way to do it. It is very Human, to adjust some of the traditions , to local conditions. And the variations of the way in which some traditions are performed ensure us that there is no one STRICT law.

Please read carefully my more clarified explanation above. thank you for taking the time to answer. mirjam

"Nadia Abbasi" (nn snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com) writes: (snip)

Nadia has put forward some quite convincing arguments as to why she wears a head scarf; let me put some, hopefully, equally reasonable ideas as to why I resent seeing Canadian women wearing such head scarves. Naturally much of this is just my ideas, and I wont put in lots of IMHOs; if you bother to read this, please put them in at the right places. This is also somewhat long, even though I am only trying to make three of many different points. At the present time, Canada is under threat from international terrorists, who are exclusively fundamentalist Muslims. Now I know all fundamentalist Muslims are not a threat to Canada, but what concerns me is whether people are Canadians who happen to be Muslim, or Muslims who happen to live in Canada. The former I have no problem; the latter scare me all to hell. I am a Canadian, who happens to have been born in England; I am very definitely not an Englishman who happens to live in Canada. It seems to me that Muslims who live in Canada are using our tolerance, to establish a Muslim society which happens to be in Canada. Head scarves are one sign of this, but there are others, and Muslims are not going out of their way, cf Maher Arar (?sp), to convince us that they really are primarily Canadians. Then there is the social aspect. Education in Canada is not only book learning, it is learning how to live socially in Canada. One extremely important aspect of this is children taking part in sporting activities, particularly team sports; soccer, baseball, volleyball, basketball, curling, etc. etc. I have watched my grandchildren growing up with these activities, and I cannot recall, ever, seeing a Muslim girl in a head scarf participating. The whole attitude of Muslim society, the code of dress, etc makes it extremely difficult for Muslim girls to participate in team sports here in Canada. Even curling, where surely the code of dress may be less restrictive, does not seem to have attracted Muslim women. It is vitally important that Canadian children learn such things as in hockey, where getting an assist is far more important than scoring the goal, so far as one's teammates are concerned. Canada does no force people to build the walls of the ghetto, and then go and live there. The Muslim community has built these walls, and Muslim women willing go and live there; cutting themselves off from a vital part of Canadian life, participating in team sports, and making them Muslims who just happen to be in Canada. Then there is religion and the law in Canada. In the countries where most rctners reside, many of our laws are based on 1215, Runnymede, and Magna Carta. The Canadian government cannot restrict the individual freedoms of Canadians without showing that it has a vital necessity to do so; freedom of religion cannot by any stretch of the imagination, be used to restrict such freedoms. So the Sharia is in fundamental conflict with Magna Carta, and no country can have both around at the same time. When religious beliefs clash with Canadian law, this law wins every time. Recently a Sikh father killed his daughter because she was going to marry a non-Sikh. He argued it was justifiable homicide based on the Sikh religion. He was convicted of murder in the first degree, and given the maximum sentence under Canadian law. Seeing the wearing of head scarves reminds me of the efforts that are now being made to have the Sharia part of Canadian society; over my dead body. Something like 150 years ago, there was some sort of fight amongst the Clan McNabb in Scotland as to who was the Laird. The guy that lost got some of his followers and moved to Canada, where he tried to set up a Scottish Fiefdom. His supporters found they liked Canadian freedoms far more than they like Scottish restrictions, and all that remained was McNabb township just outside Ottawa; until it disappeared recently. I am convinced that, given time, Muslim women living here in Canada will make the same choice. The freedom to live in Canada, and to a very large extent have no restrictions on one's freedom, is going to be far preferable to living with the restrictions of Muslim beliefs.

-- Jim Cripwell. From Canada. Land of the Key Bird. This creature of doom flies over the frozen tundra in winter, shrieking its dreaded call; "Key, Key, Key, Key rist but it's cold!!"

James You obviously missed a very neat column in a recent Globe& Mail by a Muslim woman recalling her experiences playing women's hockey at university in hijab. I have taught a number of women at university like her--lively, energetic participants in all aspects of university life, in their headscarves. Dawne

snipped-for-privacy@actcom.co.il (Mirjam Bruck-Cohen) wrote in news:429ecd0b.387722 @ar.news.verio.net:

Well, I would bet my last dollar that the freedom that each of those two people would not be identical.

Nadia , First i would join you in telling Jim that Sikhs aren`t exactly Muslim. Secondly , if the man killed his daughter it is his crime, and it is a pity that he leans on his religion, to justify it. But i must say that Such murders , are still perforned , too many times , and i am sorry Nadia , But they are more common in Muslim Communities, than in other communities.

Yet , Too many men kill their daughters and sisters and claim it is done in the name of family honor in their [Muslim] Faith.

I am sorry you have not read my explanation , why i , and not only me , see the use of wearing the headkerchief , by young girls in schools as a probe method to see how far the new comers can go in enacting their rules on the hosting countries.

Let`s hope we can all join hands and stop all Terrorists everywhere . Let`s all refuse to accept inciters and people who hate others, for no reason. Let`s hope that Women , all Women will be safer and more free and equal Everywhere.

---------------- You might remember that The Bedouin Women of Lakiya , built a CoOperative where they sell their handcrafts , to earm money while they tend their homes and kids. Last Month , some men of the tribe Burnt down their supplies storage , and left a message , that this was done since women should not earn money. Of course not all men in the tribe think this way , but it a sad event. mirjam

"Dawne Peterson" ( snipped-for-privacy@sasktel.net) writes:

I am not explaining myself very well. I never said that Muslim women never take part in team sports; merely that I had never seen any. The head scarf is not an absolute bar, but it is a deterrent. So I suspect, and my eyes have told me, that there is a tendency for Muslim women who wear head scarves not to participate in team sports as much as the rest of their Canadian peers. Here is Canada, you name the country, and we have people who have emigrated to Canada from there. Unlike the USA, many of these people have not disappeared into a "melting pot". They have preserved their language, customs, food, etc, but at they same time, they have become Canadians. Here in Ottawa, we have Little Italy, and Preston Street is sub-titled Curso Italiano (or something like that). Gimli in Manitoba is reputed to be the largest Icelandic town outside Iceland. For the recent Ukrainian elections, we could send literally hundreds of people who were undoubtedly Canadian, but who spoke fluent Ukrainian. The question I ask myself is "Are Muslims different?" In the end, I am confident that our Canadian way of life is too good for them to do anything else but adopt it. But in the meanwhile, I am worried, because of the fundamentalist Muslim threat to Canada. I worry about anything that tends to delay this integration. And head scarves which discourage Muslim girls from behaving like most other Canadian girls are a concern to me. One of the ways in which this integration tends not to happen is the participation in team sports. But the Muslim way of life in general seems to me to discourage Muslims from becoming Canadians first, and something else second.

-- Jim Cripwell. From Canada. Land of the Key Bird. This creature of doom flies over the frozen tundra in winter, shrieking its dreaded call; "Key, Key, Key, Key rist but it's cold!!"