"Dr. Brat" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:
Well, I am a fundamentalist because I think that the way the Bible has been interpreter for centuries is probably correct and didn't need anybody who thinks they know better than the people who wrote it in the first place to redefine what they think they meant to make it mean something totally different, and I am a separatist because I believe that when I am at odds with the leadership or the core values (sorry for using that word again) of an organization and we cannot see eye to eye after discussing with them our differences, my responsibility is to graciously retreat under the guise of irreconcilable differences rather than to try to infiltrate the leadership and press them to change (a reformation-type perspective, also a Christian Reconstructionist perspective *if* I understand them correctly) or to try to politic/lobby/campaign/whatever to cause change to happen from the outside in (a protestant-type perspective, not protestant in the sense of not being Roman Catholic but protestant in the sense that doctrinal error is protested.)
I read in a book I really liked that fundamental separatist is a centrifugal movement, always throwing off things that aggregate on the fringe in order to keep refining one's core being in the pursuit of perfection of one's character/spirit/soul.
This concept works tons better for me than having some manmade list of what constitutes a spiritual person, because although it's really not my job to be the centrifuge in anybody else's life, I can sometimes see from the outside if someone else's centrifuge seems to have a malfunction and can mention it to them so that they can make sure it is still working okay.
I have tried to express this without any jargon in the hope that it will make more sense and not hit anybody's hot buttons nor cause any misunderstanding due to different groups defining different terms differently.
Dianne Lewandowski wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@individual.net:
I already wrote what it means to me, but in a nutshell it's sort of being halfway in between a Mennonite/Amish/whatever flavor of Anabaptist you prefer and a very conservative, traditional, old-school (read: pre- pluralistic thinking) Baptist/Presbyterian/Methodist type.
But as a fundamental separatist Christian, I am.
When I say "traditional Christian beliefs," I mean those beliefs that have endured for centuries and remained relatively intact until this century, when people have redefined them and said they really don't mean what people have always believed them to mean. Those beliefs are definitely in the minority.
I think that is a 20th-century revisionist view of the Constitution. The Constitution is *full* of references to God, religious beliefs, etc., and stated that they did not want the government to set up an official national religion, as did the UK, one or more Scandinavian countries (can't remember which one or ones but I know at least one has a national religion), and some Latin American, Asian, and Middle Eastern countries. As it stands it really almost seems like agnosticism is becoming the US state religion *chuckle*.
Thank you for making the effort to do that and for answering my question. I'm not sure I have a reaction other than "oh, ok" and the need to chew on it for a while.
"Carey N." wrote in news:CaPje.10963$mv5.2392@trndny07:
I'm sure that is a common reason, but I have also seen first-hand and heard second-hand (from the people attempting to lovingly confront someone about an issue) about, for one thing, enough parents who don't want to hear that their precious little angel (NOT!) has done anything wrong, because they are such a precious little angel is such a perfect angel that they couldn't possibly have done anything wrong, and they shoot the messenger rather than hear the message. It's such a shame that parents wouldn't rather correct their child when a problem is small butr escalating rather than ignore it and hope it goes away.
I have also seen that, or a parent that is resistant to the idea that their child did something wrong, until another person confirms that 'Precious' actually did do what was reported(and sometimes, not believing it even then). Perhaps they take it as a reflection or attack on their parenting? Of course, I suppose that's just another possibility of the several/many/hundreds of possibilities for anyone's reaction.
To be clear, you are then believing that the world is only a few thousand years old, and that man and dinasaurs (if they exist) existed together. You are a literalist (fundamentalist).
Thanks for taking the time. As Elizabeth mentioned, that will take some mulling over. :-)
The Preamble: "secure the blessings of liberty" That isn't necessarily a christian thought.
I just read the full constitution (dry stuff), and couldn't find anything that remotely pointed to our constitution being "full of references to god and religious beliefs."
I just read an article in a local paper that people are no longer doing anything with others -- not bowling leagues, not dinner at each others' homes, not getting together to play cards. So, it's not just me noticing this trend toward such staunch individualism and independence that we'd rather sit alone in front of the TV than socialize. Trust me, it's coming soon to your area! One reason you haven't noticed it may be that your neighbors are elderly and raised differently; I live in a neighborhood of 40-something Californians, who were raised to be self-centered brats.
Some years ago, I repeatedly tried to get a colleague to join me for dinner. This night was out because of 90210, that night was out because of some other show. She swore up and down that she liked me, wanted to be my friend, but it was clear that watching 90210 was more important to her than spending time with me.
I'm sure what you say is true, but as another "40 something", can I put in my 2 cents?
My DH works graveyard shift, I work different shifts, sometimes 9 to
1, sometimes 1 to 5, sometimes 3 to 9, sometimes 11 to 4, you get my drift, in other words my work schedule changes from week to week and day to day. I also work 3 out of 4 weekends. We also volunteer at my
21 yr. olds son's karate club 3 nights a week. Plus, same son and DH are often away at karate tournaments or seminars. Oh, and don't forget about 23 yr. old son being away at university, so the weekend off that I have a month we usually visit him, which involves a 2 hr. drive each way. Add to this I am part of the "sandwich generation", and am now dealing with my 80 yr. old Dad's terminal illness, and driving he and Mom to Dr.'s appointments, etc. This takes up a tremendous amount of time.
Soooo....when DH and I get a night at home together to have a quiet dinner and watch TV we are happy as can be. We do go out to dinner with friends now and again, but it's $100 at least and we just don't always have that kind of $$$ to spend on a meal. If we invite friends to our home it's still $100 by the time you buy the groceries to make the meal, wine, appies, etc.
We can't commit to a bowling league unless it is a Monday night, I work until 6 p.m. most Monday nights, and DH isn't interested in bowling anyway. I used to belong to one of the local Eastern Star chapters, but that is Thursday nights, and I am committed to son's karate club. Most other organizations want some sort of regular commitment, and I just can't do that because of a constantly changing work schedule.
I'm not condoning your friend's behaviour for wanting to watch 90210, and not do dinner, just giving a possible explanation for some of us
40 somethings :) Btw, why couldn't she have taped it???
Karen C - California wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@individual.net:
*shrug* I go out with a group of people on average once a week, with us going to one or another's home once a month. There's a 30 year age span among us, from the 30-something up to near retirement age. I can always find someone with whom to share dinner, if I want, and still have plenty of "me" time. I guess it must be a regional thing.
K
Linda D. wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
Make it a potluck. I have a group of people I socialize with frequently, and we often have dinner at each other's house. One will bring the wine, another will bring desert, someone else will bring the salad, while still another will bring some chips and dip. I'll make a pot of chili or jambalaya for far less than $100, and still have leftovers after feeding anywhere from 8-12 people.
Great idea :) But, in order to be off before 9:15 p.m on a Friday night I have to book it off a month in advance, and if I want to be off before 6:30 p.m. on a Saturday night, I also have to book off a month in advance. Most of our friends are not prepared to commit that far ahead, and they work full-time so prefer going out rather than cooking in. Heck, I've already booked off Labour Day Weekend in September so we can move son into his new dorm room at university, and have our traditional lunch with two couples we enjoy seeing.
Plus, DH is off at karate tournaments with son 2 out of 4 weekends a month, not a whole lot of time for socializing.
Oh...got a great dinner out story for everyone. We had a dinner out with friends back in March. We had a delicious dinner, noisy restaurant but that's no one's fault. We left and headed for the cars. I was saying good-bye to our friends, DH opened my door, and scooted around to the driver's side so he could warm up the car. I took a step on the wet grass to get in the car. My foot slipped and I went forward. I ended up with a gash in my foreheaf requiring 14 stitches :( The good part was at least it was after dinner :) Oh, and no, I was not drunk, I'd only had two drinks before the accident.
like you I thought perhaps it might be regional as the people this part of the country are quite social. And then I thought perhaps income. But upon reflection that is not it in my experience . It did start for me in Newfoundland over 35 years ago, but then when I moved to Ottawa, capitol city of Canada, I lived on a street in a brand new subdivision with people from all over Canada and immigrants from many countries some of women did not even speak any English. And here on the street I live now we are not as diverse in background but certainly range in age from early 80's to mid 30's plus the kiddies of course. No in my experience it is will, just one person the first couple of years with the willingness to plan it. Actually quite easy and takes very little time. For the barbecue for instance everyone brings their own meat and it ranges from Steak to pork chops, to hot dogs, chicken even fish. It is not a competition to see who is the best cook as ready made is acceptable for the shared dishes. So some years someone buys potato salad and another year some one will make home made. Ruby
I guess I have always been an odd ball when it comes to socializing. I worked shift work and weekends for years with a husband who was away all week, sometimes several at a time. I guess I had to be inventive and take a few risks. Not every one shared my sense of spontaneity but I found it was a matter of keep trying. Have been known to invite a neighbour or friend or two over for breakfast when I was working night shifts. or some evenings call a neighbour or friend who was on their own and suggest they bring whatever they were planning on cooking over and we would have a sort of pot luck. And yes people are usually surprised but enjoy the novelty of the idea often. I have due to some health problems stop being so spontaneous, perhaps it is time to start again. So many people complain they have no time these days yet find time for at least 1 hour of television daily. The average per Canadian household I believe is 3 hours. It takes a little work to have fun. Doing nothing is not having fun it is doing nothing. Life is short and goes by one way or the other and we all die in the end with all of eternity to do nothing.
Break out the barbecues. California here I come. I am spending 3 months from June through end of August with my daughter, a new grandchild due in July .( These navy guys seem never to be around for the harvest, only to plant.) ruby
I think it's just that we all have our own idea of 'fun' :) When you work with people all day long, and deal with many customers during the work day, it's nice to come home to quiet, and not have to make conversation. My 3 nights a week volunteering is also socialiizing, and I work 1 night a week, so that leaves three nights to play and do whatever I want, so that's what we do, and at the top of my list is needlework.
Linda D. wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
Like Karen, I'm single and childfree. She's the one who made the argument that no one is doing things with other people anymore by choice; I offered an example from my life that suggests otherwise. If I want to, I can always find someone with whom to do something, and it doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg (just a few bruised egos with our killer Trivial Pursuit games). Now, if you don't have the time, because of your schedule, that's a different story -- but that wasn't what Karen was saying.
Good Morning Melinda , Read this answer last evening and decided that i should reread a bit about American deffinitions of some of the terms you used.
So why not open the door for another grown up to teach your child. >
In Most Countries and cultures i visited , lived in or am in contact with Liberal is used to define people qith Open minds , With lots of tolerance to any `other` criteria a person calls himself or practices. thus this sentence of your`s really confused me at first reading. Now i rearead some of the materials . toward others who aren't like me, to a far more
Having already read the rest of this letter, i must tell you that our deffinitions of tolerance are also different. For example you define secular people as having "No values "and emphasised it with adding" AT ALL". This tells me that you lack of tolerance [and respect], to anyone who doesn`t believe in your way. Secualr people have values Different values than yours ..
I do my best to understand.
My first indication to lack of tolerance as i define it , starts with your need to give this 2 examples, Tolerance for me would have been had you written that you had Neighbours from other beliefs.No need to give such a Specific detail as to Which belief it is.
Here comes my other reaction, to scratch my mind wondering, And don`t get me wronf i accept your story at face value, but if you had such long talks with those other parents, to the point [ according to your story] that you explained to each other `religious viewpoints`. How come you use an extremely Christian point of view to write the above. I never ever in my life have heard any Jewish person saying , or writing or hinting that "our faith was the correct one and those of the others albeit sincere , was misguided".This is not a Jewish concept...Judaism having `mothered` or having been the root of the 2 other Monotheist Beliefs , is quite aware of their existance and doesn`t claim them to be misguided, just to have happened. It usually Beliefs, Ideologies that Develop from other beliefs/ideologies that feel the need to proove they `are the right ones`.
Why not just say traditions , beliefs, culture ?
please enlighten me how did you solve the problem of not being able to serve the Muslim and Jewish kids any food from your house ?
I agree with you that , Religious Fundamental people of the 3 Monotheistic beliefs have a lot in common, But of course they put the weight in another place, and in fact the are also way apart. You tell us you have boys? were all the kids from the other 2 families boys as well ??
I have reacted to this above , and i see your intolerance and disrespect to other Humans you claim to be a Fundamental Christian , claiming you go by the Bible?? A far as i remember my Bible , reading it in the Original Hebrew You are supposed to respect the Foreigners, and guests in your neighbourhood. Why not respect those people and say /accept that they were brought up with Different Set of values than yours.
So it is ok ? for `other` parents to raise thier child the way they see fit `AS LONG as it is with a religious belief/` Would you agree than to your children play with other Religions that the Monotheistic religions?
children the freedom
Having had quite some experience in "the potential conflicts" ,in many areas , from Grown up Students , working together to Mixed marriages and every possible combination i can think of . Please enlighten me with the details of this Wonderful experience. Could you at least concise at least some of those Potential Conflicts , you managed to avoid by talking about it before hand. And please tell us a little what your kids Learned about the other Faiths ?
Tolerance for me , is first of all not to assumme the other believes in my way of thinking.
"I Disapprove of what you say, but i will defend to the death your right to say it" , isn`t such an old saying , it has been said by Voltaire [1694 - 1778] ,,,, and if you lean on his sayings ,, you might as well adopt some of his other sayings like "Liberty of thought is the life of the Soul... I do understand part of your ideas , i tottaly disagree with some of the words you use about other people. mirjam
Please tell me which part of my above sentences doesn`t relate to your neighbourhood ? >
You have already made it quite clear that you think homeschooling is part of your responsibility as parent ,,, You have not answered my above feeling that you think that your way is trhe right way and that anybody who behaves differently is WRONG ,has no values `At all `. But you also haven`t answered my question ; What should a parent do if he has to choose between working to provide food/roof to the child and Homeschooling??????
As was I !!!!>
Usually , education happens in classes, = every teacher has his/her mentality , abilities etc... it might happen that one or two teachers , seem or really do What you describe here .....and in such casses one might ask that either the teacher or the child be mooved to an other class. But if you claim that a Whole Local Publ;ic School district Does such an activity , maybe it is cuase to Complain or pettition to the Higher authorities , or courts ????? and in doing this you might fuillfill your claim , that you don`t hesitate to inform other people/children when they are doing wrong things and /or illigal things. Think how many people might benefit from such a Legal act.
Here we go again ,,,,, please Define Social indoctrination , You are Indoctrinating your kids as well, but you indoctrinate them with Asocial ideas.
If this is a volunter work that needs parental supervision ?????? i would think twice before exposing my kids to it at all.
Proofreading , in what capacity ? as parent ? student? teacher ? as linguist ? as co writer? or as a censor act to see that your kids don`t read the `wrong books`?????
acceptable model of
We all know from our study and reading, that for every book with any likewise claim, there is another that will claim the opposite. Sociological , educational Ideas or models aren`t 100% right and wrong they are suggestions based on either looking or researching So many casses at so many places ,,,
Maybe you should consider mooving house or bus your children to another school ??? but if this isn`t an option , I really am not impressed when any parent tells me that THE OTHER Kids are Bad influence, if indeed your Values are so high and you educated them well , and you are there to support them , they have a lot of chance to Oppose the BAD Influnces, They might even spread good influences.. Due to Historical events many children in Europe apres WW2 , and esp many children in Israel grew either in Children homes, or in quite big groups , amny of those kids became wonderful citizens , who contributed and still do so to many Society needs , education systems , Science and medicine all over the world ,, Just from theseGroups , there were less Asocial casses , even though many of them, Became children again after seeing the `morals` of the grown up world crumble. I know wonderful people who spent part of their youth hiding, stealing for their lives, some sabbotatging trains, and many who Fed or supported foods for half a Getto. People who smuggled over borders ,,, and than They came back and in the Groups they became kids again. Grown ups have done more harm and are a much worse influence on kids who stray ,out from the accepted social structure. At a certain stage in my life i was a street social worker , Mny of those kids or teenager came from Strict families,,, Who taught them Morals and values , but could not see or hear the child within.
So why don`t you petition your local authorities more on behalf of those kids who realy need help???
Why should it offend me ?? i understand your natural need to deefend your children ..I opposed the nasty term you used when speaking about kids who are probably less fortunate then yours.
I understand what you say and agree that measures should be taken to deffend our kids from harm , but i don`t believe that keeping them at home , will provide this deffense you so much want and deserve. One of the reasons my generation is very patient with a lot of troubled kids , was because at the time there were no Specail Classes , thus we had a retarded boy in our class and we all knew How to help when when he got into help. Another girl had motoric disabilities , We took care of her as well . We learned by this that society wasn`t made of only well to do healthy kids, and that we as a society , have to help those who are different.
I understand and respect all your writings and doings, i wasonly quite concerrned with Yuo looking down on other kids esp Non religious brought up kids.
Isn`t there a lwa that `regualr ` kids should get a different school that Under achievers ????
Oh, so it was a hidden compliment ????
Well? at least Hooligans is a term used for Humans !!!!
Since my people were called Vermin , before they were destroyed , murdered and Gassed, I am allergic to any person using this term when speaking about people !!!
You are extremely well spoken and fluent in your discussion , As well as an educator to your kids, I am sure that when you used the term Vermin you didn`t mean Flowers . But Those liittle animals Filthy ,Jeeky , rats , nice , flies , lice etc... mirjam
Melinda wrote: >>Because many places will not let younger children do volunteer work on >>their own, but they will let them do it if they are under the direct >>supervision of their parents.
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen responded:
It isn't that the work itself requires parental supervision. The volunteer agency doesn't want the legal/financial responsibility if something happens to children who are volunteering. Some insurers may require this.
Of course it is also supposed to prevent a group of kids taking over and making a mess of things. I used to volunteer at a hospital convenience shop and saw this happen during the summer when junior high students were allowed to volunteer. Some were very good workers but others just wanted to goof off, eat the food without paying for it, stand around gossiping, etc. Finally the volunteer director got enough complaints so she told the worst ones not to come back and made sure some others never were on the schedule together. At that particular site, children under
13 were not allowed to volunteer because of liability even though we did have jobs that could have been performed by a younger person.
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