OT: Home Schooling

Um, because a lot of us are now in our 40's and need to brush up? lol

Maureen > Kim McAnnally wrote:

I would hope that those who home school also think about the arts and involve their children in some way, including music and art appreciation. If children aren't being sung to at an early age, and taught to use their voices by singing simple songs, the ability to learn this later is hampered. I was very saddened that one of my neighbors decided to home school, so I volunteered to teach them music two days per week. It was sad that they struggled so with songs, but we did make progress, especially with reading music and learning some music history. However, the parent never required them to finish their homework, so I eventually stopped the lessons in utter frustration. You can lead a horse to water . . .

Dianne

Karen C - California wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@individual.net:

Do you have facts/details on this, or is it just a rumor? I most sincerely do not mean this in an antagonistic manner; I would just like to read about it myself. Perhaps they are being helped by someone else who is working on the literacy level of the entire family, or perhaps the actual mechanics of their home schooling would appear perfectly okay if examined in detail. But truthfully, the best measure of the results of any educational modality is the academic success of the students.

Here are some good reasons why this would be a bad idea:

1. The academic failure rate in home schooled students overall is less than the failure rate overall in public schools. There are lots of good colleges who seek out and try to attract home schooled students as a whole, as they consider them desirable students. So as the saying goes, if it's not broken, why try to "fix" it?

This is not to say that there might be some home school failures. But the majority of home schooled students do well academically and fewer of them fall between the cracks. I know TONS of public school students who don't know math because of the crazy spiral-learning methodology applied to elementary-grade math textbooks (and I proofread textbooks for a number of years, and I know what they are like).

1. There are so few people who want to home school their child and they cause so little trouble that it's not worth getting out the big guns to go after a few flies who are minding their own business, not bothering anybody else, and just want to be left alone.
2. There are fewer requirements for private school teachers to have credentials, and private school students as a whole do better academically than public school students. And home schoolers operate as private schools in many states.
3. Even in public schools, there is no requirement that a child actually be learning (except for states who have recently starting requiring an exit exam), only that they attend school. In California, where a home schooling family files a private school affidavit just like any other private school, they must certify that they are teaching the main courses of instruction that the State believes is necessary for children and they are required to keep attendance records. I believe they are also supposed to have publically-available anti-harrassment and anti-abuse policies, but we operate under an umbrella school, so I don't know for sure. But other than that, despite the fact that our state Dept. of Education would like people to believe otherwise, that is all that is required, and that sounds reasonable.

"Maureen In Vancouver, B.C." wrote in news:3C5ie.1376713$6l.367484@pd7tw2no:

My children have been HSed from the ground up, and as I went through their work with them, it has refreshed my memory on things that I was rusty on. Plus, if you have ever seen a teacher's manual, most of them could be used by a bright 6th grader to teach a class, they are so elemental. Have the class turn to page X. Tell them XXX. Ask this question. You should get this answer. If you don't, go to this supplement and work through it. Have them do a group assignment. If you have a bright class, assign them problems 26-50 for homework. If you have an average class, assign them problems 13-37 for homework. If you have a below-average class, assign them problems 1-25 for homework. If you have gifted students, assign them the bonus problems as well. (Note that all three types of classes will receive the same grade for the same course based on their scores on whichever level of instruction they receive. Personally, this does not make sense to me.)

Dianne Lewandowski wrote in news:3es8haF4n9t1U1 @individual.net:

We do music instruction here, but I will note that our local public school district quit teaching music a long time ago due to budget cuts.

Melinda, you mentioned: >I know TONS of public school students who

For the uninitiated, could you please explain what this means?

You obviously have done your homework. This is a most interesting, thought provoking statement. I fought the public school system for years, so I know a little of what you are talking about. Dianne

I'll bet they have a full-blown sports and PE education. :-) I hope they haven't removed art education. Like music, this has affects on developing brains, whether or not one becomes "proficient." This is very sad to hear. It's like gutting culture. Hopefully, parents are filling the gap. Music education is mandated in Wisconsin. But with budget cuts, I wonder how long before they change things. Dianne

Dianne Lewandowski wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@individual.net:

Spiral learning means, "Expose the student to the subject every year, and sooner or later the student will pick it up."

This is diametrically opposed to mastery learning, which means, "Give the student a topic and work with him until reaching a reasonable level of mastery, and *then* move on to the next level.

Spiral learning is an unfortunate necessity in public schools, where one teacher much teach anywhere from 12 to 40 (more or less) students at a time, although some teachers certainly could try to work a little harder at including some mastery learning elements in their lesson planning.

Mastery learning is best accomplished in a one-to-one or one-to-few teaching situation, which is the typical home schooling situation or in a private tutoring situation.

Example: One of my children graduated from penmanship instruction in grade 2 or 3 -- my requirement to graduate from penmanship instruction is that they have to copy about a half-page of text in pen (i.e., no corrections allowed) with perfect penmanship and no mistakes -- and another kept messing around until they finally decided to pass it in high school (the same one, of course, who conscientiously refused to learn to read until said student went through it on the third pass and decided that I really was going to keep hammering at it until it was mastered and gave in LOL).

I have seen many victims of California's spiral learning approach to education who don't have basic skills. OTOH, I have not seen any victims of a mastery learning approach.

(I will concede, however, that I know of some home schoolers who do not use a mastery learning approach.)

What can I say? I love reading and find practically everything in life fascinating. And I think I have succeeded in infecting my children with it also.

"Melinda Meahan - remove TRASH to reply" wrote in message news:Xns965896625AF68mmeahanatsonic@208.201.224.154...

I worked as an aid in a public school. One of the better rated ones in NJ. I worked for three teachers. One was fine, but one was making spelling errors on the board, in front of six graders, almost everyday. Another had me grade the math for him, as he had no algebra skills. He used the answers in the back of the book. Judy

"Melinda Meahan - remove TRASH to reply" wrote in message news:Xns965896CEF2FE7mmeahanatsonic@208.201.224.154...

Music and art can be incorporated into other subjects when you homeschool. I let my grandkids spend time on a lot of different kinds of art. My grandkid takes piano from a local teacher and I take her to concerts and she has even spent the day in a recording studio. She takes ballet as well. Judy

I used to care for a little girl after school on occasion. We'd do homework together until her parent arrived. I wondered why some of the homework was something way beyond her concept (third grade material at early first grade) at the time. I asked several persons about this and was told, "Oh, they believe in introducing concepts early so that when they finally get to the subject, the child will remember having come across it before."

I was most upset to hear this. What a waste of time. The kid can't conceptualize it, and it's not even expected that they will. So you're frustrating everyone for no purpose.

So, if I understand your concept, what I have just documented is spiral learning?

Dianne

Dianne Lewandowski wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@individual.net:

That's exactly it. Pathetic, isn't it? That's why I will never use public school textbooks to teach my children -- I have seen them, and I am not impressed, because my children deserve better.

And don't even get me started on the textbook that was trying to teach algebra and ecology at the same time and failed miserably at both. GRRRRR!!!!!!

One thing everyone seems to be missing is that we who home-school our children do so out of love for our children. We want them to excel, and they generally do BECAUSE of the one on one student/teacher ratio. The books we teach them from are government approved for the grade level of each child, and in this house, we generally expand on the information in the home-school books through field trips and internet access.

This is not to say those who send their children to public school don't care for their kids too, but for my family at least, I feel very priviledged to have been given the opportunity to teach my children at home in this manner. This may not be the chosen method for many, but for us, it was a dream come true.

They have very well rounded lives and are involved in all the local singing - dancing - gymnastics - and even mall hopping with friends after they have finished their lessons for the day. The only thing they are missing out on is the interaction that takes place in the school hallways and that my friends, I'm grateful for! :)

Maureen In Vancouver, B.C.

For the things you forget, it's easy to relearn them :) I'll be doing that in Math, I'm sure. And I also learned short division this year! LOL - I had never been taught anything but long division - I like short much better!

As for parent's without a HS education, I don't know. I imagine it depends on the reason - obviously someone with an IQ of 70 should not be trying to teach home school. But if the person is smart enough, they shouldn't have any problem learning the subject right along with their child. I've always taught myself anything I wanted to learn anyway, why couldn't they learn

*with* their children? When you teach a subject, you retain much more information about it - have the child teach them things the child is good at, and they teach what they are good at. Bring in tutors as needed, and it should work. Kim

A parent may have difficulty because they didn't take the same Math or whatever in high school, plus the fact that by the time most parents have kids and the kids are school age, the parents have been out of the education system for 5 to 10 yrs.

In addition, a friend was a school teacher, and she said by the time her kids were in high school they were doing the Math processes she learned in university. The system had moved what had been taught at the university level down to the high school level, so the typical teenager would never have been taught these same processes in high school when she attended.

take care, Linda

If teaching seems so easy, then why are teachers required to have 5 yrs. of university education to be permitted to legally teach? I just believe teaching involves much more...

take care, Linda

I believe there is room for all types of education, public, private, and home schooling. I also feel that those who home school should have to be accountable in some way, and as Karen C. mentioned they should at the very least have to have a Gr. 12 education themselves.

I also feel that a student will excel with or without home schooling. I always find it amazing to look back on the students my kids graduated with, it was not necessarily the Straight A students who continued their education. There are so many other influences that determine what they do after they finish high school

The public education offers more than just a classroom enviroment. Yes, some of the influences are not always positive, but all kids have to learn to deal with things that are not positive, and need to learn how to make positive choices.

take care, Linda

A couple years ago when the legislature was discussing some sort of parental qualification for home schoolers, the local news went to talk to some parents doing home schooling who didn't think the Lege had any business telling them what they could do with their kids. Some of them came across on TV as just this side of illiterate; one set of parents didn't bother with any book other than the Bible, because they "didn't reckon the kids was gonna need no math" and could learn everything they needed to know from the Bible.

Yes, the vast majority of home schooling parents are capable people who want their kids to get a better education than in public school, but, like everything else, you run across the Lunatic Fringe, who don't care whether the kids can function in the real world, because they want to make sure the kid has *no* influence beyond the Bible (or some other religion's Holy Book), and never gets exposed to anything beyond the parents' own limited sphere of knowledge, because anything new has got to be bad. Those kids are being condemned to a life of hand-to-mouth existence, just like their parents, rather than being educated to take advantage of all the opportunities for self-betterment. Maybe, if the kid were ever introduced to a doctor, the kid would want to grow up to be one, which is not going to happen if all the science you know is "God created the heavens and the earth".

As I suggested, give the parents a test and if they do math at the second grade level, they cannot teach math above the level they score themselves, to ensure that the kid learns math correctly.

Linda D. wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

The problem with this is that a large number of home schoolers reject the "It takes a village" philosophy out of hand, believe it is their responsibility and privilege as a parent to direct their child's upbringing and that upbringing includes education, and they would not want the government interfering with how they should educate their children any more than they would want the government interfering with any other aspect of how they raise their child.

But for me the biggest thing is the "We are a small and quiet minority who choose to follow a different, more difficult path and have proven to be successful at it and just want to be left alone."

The biggest *organized* opponents/enemies of home education are those who see every home-schooled child as money taken out of the public school districts' pockets and who therefore feel that they are a threat to public education as well as those who feel that it is more the government's right to determine how children should be raised than the parents' right.

My children have learned how to deal with influences that are not positive right in their own neighborhood, and some of my relatives and acquaintances who were vehemently opposed to home schooling when I started have since changed their tune by seeing the results of home education in my children.